Were you around in the late 90s-early 2000s? Because let me tell you that the prequels did not spark joy for people then. It was insane the amount of hate leveled at Ep 1-3. Hell kids at Jake Lloyd’s school bullied him so hard he quit acting.
So you never know, 7-9 might spark joy for people in 20 years.
It’s wild how people pretend that the prequels weren’t hated by a bunch of people. Like, the Plinkett Reviews of the prequels were legendary YouTube videos for years before people started ironically memeing the prequels in, like, 2016.
Zoomers memed themselves into liking them. I’m amazed
Corrective surgery for this woman’s face?
Speaking as someone who actively despised the prequels when they came out, and has only learned to unclench my teeth in anger at their existence after a long process of maturation and philosophical introspection, I can’t wait to see the next generation of people getting furious when the sequels have been out long enough for new young fans to grow up and embrace them the same way the prequels were. It was horrible and difficult for me to go through, so it’s only fair that others should have to witness that process as well.
I know, right? As a huge Star Wars nerd who was in middle school when 1 came out, I didn’t even bother to go see 2 in theaters, and to this day I still haven’t seen 3 all the way through because I have such a bad taste in my mouth.
In fact, the way Lucas shit all over the established lore and canon to produce such a flaming turd turned me off to the entire IP and I didn’t read a Star Wars book or watch a show/movie until I gave Ep 7 a try because my FiL wanted to see it in the theater. That one I actually enjoyed (contrary to popular opinion), and I’ll say that the first season of Mandalorian and Bad Batch was decent, too. I haven’t seen Andor, but I probably will based on everyone’s reviews.
But the last Star Wars work that I still actually like and that I still think stands on its own two feet was Empire Strikes Back.
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It did for me. Darth Jar Jar being the true Sith Lord is head cannon to me.
Cool concept. But george lucas wasnt creative enough for that theory. He almost had an nsync segment in episode one because his daughter liked nsync.
I hate how you’re right
I was a kid when the prequels came out. I remember the hate for them, but most of my friends that were my age all loved them, as did I.
I think people tend to like what they grew up with and dislike what comes out when they are older.
You can see this pattern in Pokemon games as well. I grew up with gen 2 and gen 3. When gen 4 came out, it seemed like everyone hated it. Same with gen 5. But now most people act like gen 5 was the last good one.
Back then we didn’t know how bad it could get. The Prequels were bad, but you know what? The Sequels retroactively made the Prequels look like masterpieces.
No, they were still bad. I thought the same as you and watched them again. It all just felt awkward.
Episode 7 is no masterpiece, but it is infinitely more watchable for me than Episode 1. The initial conflict is just confusing as far as motivation, young Anakin and Jar Jar are both obnoxious as hell, and the acting is not great. The Darth Maul fight and the pod race are about the only parts of the movie that I remember fondly.
Well of course it is just a copy of A new hope after all.
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That’s what people used to say about 1-3.
Have people actually re-evaluated the prequels now? I genuinely thought everyone was just being sarcastic.
Weirdly enough, for me the Clone Wars shows helped to retroactively make the Prequels better.
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At least 1-3 make sense. Anything after the grand finally doesn’t make sense.
The original trilogy has an overarching story. So does the prequel trilogy. I’m still struggling to figure out a big story for 7-9 what doesn’t have too many holes, and I’m not going to watch it all ten times to figure it out.
That’s true. I think the sequels did a lot right. A woman as a main character was long overdue. The visuals are great, acting is good for the most part.
But there’s no overall story that makes any sense and it contradicts the previous movies pretty much everywhere. 7 wasn’t very believable, but made at least some sense if seen on its own. 8 didn’t seem to have much story impact at all, people seem to just solve short term problems constantly. And 9 could well be a parody. A parody with a very big budget.
I liked the spin off movies (Solo, Rogue One) a lot, though.
It just kind of felt like they read a few of the EU novels and ripped off a few of their favorite parts without any of the buildup that made them significant.
We still say it
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Wait 10 years, and people will make memes and change public opinion about the sequels.
I saw the originals as a child, and thus loved them.
I saw the prequels as an adult, and was kinda meh on 1 but loved 2 and 3.
While still an adult, I felt the same way about 7 and 8 as I did about 1.
But 9? I thought there was something wrong with me at first. I literally couldn’t believe what I’d just seen. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars on that! It still hurts my brain to imagine all those people buying off on that script… It must have been an emperor’s new clothes sort of situation. Such a waste of so many things.
The Last Jedi also has a lot of problems, but The Rise of Skywalker is possibly the worst film in the entire franchise. I’m still annoyed about the fact that they had a better script with a genuinely interesting story (Duel of the Fates), and cancelled it for the shitshow that was Rise of Skywalker.
I found 9 enjoyable, but I had no expectations that it would be good or coherent. 8 made sure that there was no chance of that.
For what 9 had to do in a single movie, it did a reasonable job. Kylo had to be redeemed, Rey needed her jedi moment, an actual threat needed to be established, Leia’s death needed acknowledgement, rebels/resistance needed to be more than 20 people on a ship, poe and finn needed some sort of arc, and the good guys had to win.
What was so wrong with the Last Jedi? I see reactions like this a lot but I thought it was far from being the worst star wars I’ve seen, and as a casual watcher of this series it was one of the few of them I actually enjoyed.
The main criticism of The Last Jedi is that it threw away everything The Force Awakens had set up. By the end of it there was almost no Resistance, no Snoke, no Luke (which might be a good thing considering what it did to his character), no payoff to the setup for Rey’s past, and everyone who wasn’t Rey or Kylo went backwards in their character arcs.
Just like The Force Awakens was hated by fans for throwing away the resolution of the original movies in order to set up A New Hope 2.0.
As part two of a three part series it fails miserably, especially if you factor in meta information like Kylo will be good by the end of 9 or Carrie Fischer passing. If you pretend it’s a stand alone movie and not in an established universe, it’s a bit less bad.
It killed every thread from episode 7, and didn’t make new ones. It created major canonical problems with the Holdo maneuver and hyperspacetacking. It just copied empire, but in a slightly different order and threw in the throne scene from episode 6. It used the played out theme of the failures of the jedi, that the first 6 movies covered pretty thoroughly amd better. It declared Poe a failure, but the battle as depicted shows he was clearly right to get the dreadnought kill. The whole concept of the galaxies slowest chase, despite hyperspace existing. There’s several instances of people teleporting for the plot, notably Rose saving Finn. The casino side plot to find a one of a kind super hacker, but a random guy in jail can do it too. The leaders of the bad guys are now Hux, who was turned into comedic relief, and Kylo, who has to be good, and was bested by Rey and Luke. Rey never gets training, and never fails (other than failing to get training), remains absurdly skilled with the force. Finn’s character reverted from the growth at the end of the previous movie, and then had essentially the same arc.
The movie did have some really great looking cgi though. The holdo maneuver looks amazing. The red on crait is stunning.
Prequels weren’t great, but they were decent. I’d recommend watching them.
There is a lot to live up to being prequels. People going to judge harshly.
7-8 were just plain bad, I enjoy Star Wars stuff a bunch. I like the prequels more than most I feel. I don’t even have one single care to watch the 9th.
I doubt it will change in 10 years.
Memes, sure, but they will be only how bad they suck. People who meme about the prequels usually enjoyed them at least a little.
I love giving first time watchers the machete watching order. Watch episode 4 and 5, and then watch 2 and 3 to give Vader some backstory after he reveals that he’s Luke’s dad. Then cap it off with episode 6 as the conclusion for Luke’s and Anakin’s story.
Or I can start with Rogue One. I know one of my friends became a fan after watching Rogue One.
My new favorite order is been Rogue One, 4, 5, then 1, 2, and 3 of the Hal 9000 edits, then 6. The fan edits are generally a little shorter, so the watching them all between 5 and 6 is less of a slog than the original 1, 2, and 3.
The prequels are bad. The third one started getting it right, but then they were done.
They had good ideas to expand the Star Wars lore, but bad acting and bad writing ruined them.
I actually prefer the sequels, but imo The Mandalorian is the best Star Wars project to date.
but imo The Mandalorian is the best Star Wars project to date.
You spelled Andor wrong.
Taste is subjective and mine is terrible :p
The mANDalORian
May I introduce you to Knights of the old republic 1 and 2 and the extened media projects?
Oh yeah those were great. I wasn’t counting games and comics and stuff
8 killed Star Wars for me. I don’t think I will ever watch the 9. Or what ever cash grabs they try next.
All thanks to Filoni
The difference is that the prequels are still enjoyable, entertaining films with a lot of good aspects.
The sequels aren’t.
Uh, no?
Episode 1 in is entertaining. 2 and 3 are just awful. Especially 2.
3 is great once order 66 starts at least. first half or so of 3 is pretty boring.
I choose to forget about 2 because it was just a load of nothing.
You have to admit, it was a very bold decision to make a trilogy about the Clone Wars and then not show the Clone Wars until someone decided to make a show about a child soldier in a tube top.
No
Are we seriously bringing this nonsense over here to Lemmy as well? The ridiculous binarization of the quality of film & TV has utterly killed media discourse. If everything has to be either “amazing” or “trash fire,” there is just simply nothing to be talked about anymore.
Was the OT amazing? Yes, it was. I can get on board there.
Was the PT amazing? No, it was not. Maybe some of it was good, and most of it better than its reputation, but overall the PT was fine. In fact, overall, most content is fine.
Was the ST a garbage fire? No! It was also fine. Some of it was ok, some of it was actually good. But as a whole, it was fine.
Rogue One? Pretty good! Not mind-blowing, not bad, better than “fine.”
Solo? Very watchable. Not bad, worse than “fine.”
The Mandalorian? Quite good! Occasionally mind-blowing, regularly excellent, always better than “fine.”
Ahsoka? Also pretty good! Better than “fine.”
Most media is just fine, and ALL media exists on a spectrum of quality; and pretending like it has to be either mind-blowing or unwatchable dreck makes the whole conversation fall apart. Being able to admit it, and to admit that there are some good elements and some bad elements, or just some things you didn’t jive with, makes you sound more like an adult.
You skipped Andor. In my very subjective opinion, it’s the best thing in the star wars universe since the OT.
The writing is razor sharp, the themes are serious and heavy (how does radicalization happen? What does living under a fascist empire feel like for the average person? What does it mean to be a rebel? How much are you willing to sacrifice?), and it really explores the very early rebellion.
It’s also a great looking series, with lots of practical sets and effects, and it doesn’t retread any familiar planets so they can do cool things with world building.
Seriously! I absolutely adore/loathe Dedra Meero. She’s such a well written character, I can’t help but hate the woman.
Completely agree. My favorite scene in the show is in the first episode when the second in command dude gets told off by the station commander about how the troopers were off doing some shit they shouldn’t be doing and ended up picking a fight with the wrong person. You get everything you need to know about in that series in like 2 minutes of dialogue. You can see the bureaucracy, the dedication/patriotism, the “grey area” where the bad guys are bad but the good guys are bad too. And most importantly no cute fucking animals. We just get a straight up world building story with real humans that treats the audience like real adults capable of complex thought that can understand the nuance of why conflict arrises.
treats the audience like real adults capable of complex thought
Absolutely! Here’s one of my favorite examples of that (spoilers, obviously):
spoiler
Mon Mothma picks her husband up from some kinda party. We’ve been told repeatedly by this point that she suspects her driver of reporting to the ISB. She accuses her husband of gambling, and makes a big scene about wasting money. Right after that scene, it cuts to the driver reporting to the ISB and the ISB guy saying that this might explain her money trouble.
At no point was there dialogue about Mon Mothma’s plan to mislead the ISB and come up with an explanation they might find believable. We’re just presented with who knows what, the action, and the reaction. There’s no need for a monologue about her plan if you trust the audience to put the pieces together themselves.
Yes! excellent example. Thank you!
I actually left out Andor simply because I haven’t finished it. I started it with somebody else and our schedules have never lined up to watch the rest. I’m about to just do it on my own.
TBF the first EP is real slow to start
I remember thinking that. I think I’ll probably have to rewatch it, because I don’t remember anything that happened. But I do try to make a point not to judge or write off a TV show based upon its first 15-25%. For some shows it’s reeeeeaaaaally hard.
I generally agree, but
Was the ST a garbage fire? No! It was also fine. Some of it was ok, some of it was actually good. But as a whole, it was fine.
I’m sorry this objectively is wrong. The ST was the definition of garbage fire. There was nothing fine with it.
objectively
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
I know exactly what it means
Then this is exactly the kind of conversation-ending, inane, useless statement I’m talking about. You’re not actually saying anything; the only possible responses are agreement (in which case, nothing has been gained) or disagreement (in which case, no one’s mind will be changed). It’s the most boring, the most tiring way to have an online discussion. Stating your opinion as an opinion, with a reasoning, is so much more interesting and productive.
I’m not interested in a discussion, this topic was already discussed enough and you can read the obvious results everywhere online.
The general consensus is that Episode 7 was a soulless remake of Episode 4 and would be fine by itself if it weren’t for Episode 8 and 9, which managed to even turn Episode 7 to an irrelevant piece of media.
I’m not interested in a discussion, this topic was already discussed enough
And yet the prequel trilogy, after almost two decades, is being reevaluated and reconsidered. Conversations never end. Things are examined in a new light and different pieces are focused upon. If the conversation about Star Wars was forced to end after one poorly-received decision, the whole franchise would’ve ended with the Special Edition.
and you can read the obvious results everywhere online.
The general consensus is that […]
No, that was the groupthink. There’s no consensus reasoning for those conclusions, which means it was just the “Orthodox Online Opinion.” I prefer to think for myself.
No they were not re-evaluated - a few years ago some trolls on the internet sarcastically praised them and then some daft idiots didn’t get the joke and thought they were serious.
the objective definition of garbage fire is literal refuse that is aflame. the sequel trilogies are movies, not quickly-oxidizing litter. the phrase can be used subjectively to describe the percieved quality of something, which is what you’re doing here. if you’re going to pedant at least do it right.
the sequel trilogies are movies, not quickly-oxidizing litter.
I’m quite sure they are the latter
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I rather enjoyed 7 and 8. Granted I’m not a huge Star Wars fan, but I thought they were fun adventure movies with some really cool moments.
OT was great for it’s time, it’s a little lacking now though but still good.
PT was bad for it’s time, but with the advent of meming it has become much better. Also Ep 3 is incredible, imo best star wars film.
Rogue one was pretty good, not mind-blowing but very enjoyable.
Haven’t seen solo.
Mandolorian was phenomenal, with only a couple episodes being a little slow.
Ahsoka was also phenomenal, with no complaints at all.
But the only way for the ST to be even “ok” is if you separate from the rest of star wars. It just doesn’t fit.
Rey beats ren when she first picks up a lightsaber, after having no experience even with a sword. This is the same ren that was trained by Luke and then smoke since birth, and should be all accounts be nearly the best duelist current alive.
They immediately turn ren into a joke by having poe be not even the slightest bit intimidated by an extremely powerful darksider who can melt your brain with the force.
Their choreography was so bad they had to edit out a dagger mid fight or Rey would’ve died.
The dice are both real and not real moments apart.
Hyperspace ramming.(is actually a thing, but also simply isn’t feasible)
Episode 8 was so bad I got turned off star wars for like 2 years, and I still won’t watch somehow palpatine returned" the movie
Rey
beatsbarely survives a battle with
ren
moments after he’s been shot by a wookiee bowcaster, which we’ve seen throw stormtroopers off their feet with massive gaping holes
when she first picks up a lightsaber, after having no experience even with a sword.
but extensive and demonstrated experience with a staff
This is the same ren that was trained by Luke
partially
and then smoke
who has no demonstrated skill with a lightsaber
since birth, and should be all accounts be nearly the best duelist current alive.
Which is your headcanon. It’s not supported or implied by the film. In fact, the fact that he his lightsaber is falling apart and running ragged would rather imply that he hasn’t focused much on dueling at all. But even if he is a grandmaster—I bet I could do pretty well against Michael Jordan one-on-one if he had a fresh two-inch bullet hole in his abdomen.
They immediately turn ren into a joke by having poe be not even the slightest bit intimidated by an extremely powerful darksider who can melt your brain with the force.
Which is so very unlike Han Solo, who is not even the slightest bit intimidated by Darth Vader’s interrogation of him in Cloud City.
Their choreography was so bad they had to edit out a dagger mid fight or Rey would’ve died.
Which is so very unlike A New Hope, which features a stormtrooper bonking his head on a door in what’s intended to be a serious moment of threat for the heroes.
The dice are both real and not real moments apart.
Which is so very unlike how Imperial troops don’t care about droids in the escape pod but tthen do care about droids in the escape pod moments apart.
Hyperspace ramming.(is actually a thing, but also simply isn’t feasible)
Hyperspace ramming is amazing and I will die on this hill. Have you seen the xkcd what-if about relativistic baseball? Heavy stuff goin fast makes big boom happen. Finn later says that it’s a one-in-a-million shot, so there’s no way that an understaffed organization like the Rebellion would’ve ever wasted people (even droids) or ships on something so unlikely to work before if there was any other option, and the Empire never needed to.
Plus, the Supremacy had been tracking the Resistance through hyperspace, which means it had to have been slightly opaque to hyperspace to receive a signal, increasing the situationality of the Holdo Maneuver.
Episode 8 was so bad I got turned off star wars for like 2 years,
I was so thrilled that they decided to try some new stuff with TLJ that I became an instant Rian Johnson fan. I don’t think it all works perfectly, but so much of it would’ve been amazing if they had just stuck with it for episode 9.
and I still won’t watch somehow palpatine returned" the movie
I agree that it’s the weakest of the sequels. It might be the weakest of the nine, but that’s a toss-up with AOTC, and I’ll need a few more years to be able to make that assessment objectively.
The bottom line for me is, there’s nothing in any of the ST that ruins it for me. The sequel trilogy is probably the weakest of the saga, but it’s still fine and I’m sticking with that assessment.
FUCKING THANK YOU, there was nothing wrong with or continuity-breaking about the Holdo Maneuver, or most of the things in TLJ people love to bitch about (like Leia’s spacewalk which was pretty consistent with IRL zero-g physics and the character’s established force-sensitivity as well as being a breathtaking cinematic moment) are either conflicts with their personal headcanon (people really be getting mad about the fine points of high-dimensional travel in a cheesy movie franchise about mystical space wizards and writing essays about it and shit) or are not any worse than similar issues the OT itself (ESB has some serious issues with wonky timelines for example). The pacing isn’t great in places but nothing is so jarring as to interfere with my willing suspension of disbelief, and the story didn’t feel beat-for-beat the same as basically the rest of the franchise. TLJ was a breath of fresh air, it’s weird to me how divisive it is despite being one of the higher points in the franchise IMO.
That said, AotC at least had the neat space-opera-noir thing for part of it where Obi-Wan was playing detective, I can’t think of anything redeeming about Rise of Skywalker.
The pacing isn’t great in places but nothing is so jarring as to interfere with my willing suspension of disbelief, and the story didn’t feel beat-for-beat the same as basically the rest of the franchise.
Yeah, that’s basically how I feel about it. TLJ was better than the other two sequels and at least one of the prequels if not more. It wasn’t amazing but I feel like I need to defend it with both hands the way people came after it lol
AotC at least had the neat space-opera-noir thing for part of it where Obi-Wan was playing detective
Yeah, that was pretty dope. And I guess the Battle of Geonosis was pretty cool. But while it had some cool moments, they weren’t very coherent.
I can’t think of anything redeeming about Rise of Skywalker.
It was a visually beautiful film. But that’s about the best I can say for it.
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Whoa buddy. Nobody deserves to do that to themselves.
But yeah, the groupthink and useless discussion-enders drive me up a wall. Hate leads to suffering, but you wouldn’t know it in the Star Wars fandom.
The moderator of this community literally removed my last comment expressing this exact sentiment hahah. People took their toxicity and brought it here. Star Wars is literally serious business in these people’s eyes.
Hi, this was automod. It catches heavily downvoted comments automatically. Often this can occur with content that does have to be deleted for safety. But you were not manually singled out for your opinion.
This is the first time I’ve seen praise for the prequels. Weird.
Then you must be new to the internet. Welcome.
Nah, man. The prequels were mercilessly assaulted on the internet for a long time. There must be a new generation of fans praising them now, or maybe the newer movies are so bad that they make the prequels seem good in comparison, so everyone’s revised their opinions.
That was 20 years ago. They are praised for about 10 years now.
It’s the former since it started before the new ones came out. Tbf there was a lot about the prequels that was catering to children, especially the first one, so it makes sense it would go that way.
For me the sequels were bad enough that the prequels got a lot of slack. The prequels were awkward and had some continuity issues that were troublesome, but at least there was a plane and a somewhat cohesive plot between the 3 movies.
Is the “ugly friend” effect. People are even starting phrasing The Hobbit now after the abomination of Amazon. Also, a good story is a good story despise the “PS2” CGI of the old trio.
Just wait until the next Lord of the Rings thing, then people will be saying that Ring of Power was underappreciated at the time.
Actually I already think that, it’s a solid “okay” but people are acting like it broke into their house and burned their copies of The Lord of the Rings
I member when this meme would’ve been OT vs prequels… Now I’m not bold enough to say we’ll ever see the sequels redeemed and considered at least passable/sparks joy, but I’m also old and realize they weren’t really made for me. Then again the prequels kinda were and I kinda hated them as a kid (aside from 3)…
I watched them recently, they’re worse than I remember for sure. There are still fun things about them. But they’re not particularly good movies. I think the same thing can be said about the sequels
This is 100% spot on. They are all a lot of fun and I’ll watch them again at some point, but they’re not good movies. My bar for Star Wars properties, like for other media, comes in two layers:
- Would this be a good movie/show/game/book if it wasn’t set in the X universe? and
- Is this a good movie/show/game/book when compared to the better properties in the X universe?
IMHO, the first one is the more important question and the thing that Star Wars media constantly fails at. Andor was a fucking masterpiece and would have been an amazing piece of prestige television even absent any Star Wars connection. That’s the case with Rogue One and The Clone Wars, as well. The Prequels and Sequels don’t pass muster on criteria 1 and even a few don’t succeed meeting criteria 2.
with the prequels its mostly just the first one. Darth maul is the only good thing it had and they killed him like right off the bat. make 2 one, the clone wars cartoon as 2 and 3 stays three and it would not be to bad a trilogy.
In my opinion the bad movie is really the second one. You can cut that movie almost completely. There’s like 2-3 scenes of actually trilogi plot relevant stuff in there and so much crap. Even as a kid I absolutely hated ping-pong ball Yoda.
The majority sets up the Clone wars tv-series which is great and where you actually see Anakin develop as a character and towards the dark side, the stuff in AotC is just not it.
The dialogue is worse than any other Star Wars movie without any contest. Pretty much every line that gets memed on is from AotC.
It’s an action movie with some cool fighting for sure, but that has never been the appeal of Star Wars to me. As such it’s to this date the second worst Star Wars movie in my book.
Strongly disagree. Episode One was definitely the worst, but the whole trilogy was basically 6 hours worth of a creator having no idea what made his IP successful in the first place while desperately trying to out merchandise Return of the Jedi. They were toy commercials more than they were movies.
Also hot take: Darth Maul was a worthless character and we need to stop perpetuating the idea that he was somehow badass. He showed up for like 3 scenes, killed one equally useless Jedi, then died with a dumb look on his face because he couldn’t hit a guy jumping directly over his head. Except he didn’t die because Dave Filoni thinks he loves Star Wars while feeling the need to retcon everything about it. Boba Fett had more effective screen time and impact on the story than Maul, and we all know how useless Fett is.
Nostalgia is the only reason anyone looks back fondly on the prequels, and I dread the day nostalgia overtakes the sequels and I have to start biting my tongue on those too for fear of backlash.
You want to get back to what Star Wars originally was? Cut 90% of the budget, heavily criticize every creative decision, and treat the entire production like a goddamned venereal disease. Star Wars was a textbook example of art through adversity and benefited hugely from it. That’s what been lost and no one is talking about it.
see that is the the thing about darth maul. his look and lightsaber were so cool. he had massive potential but then as you say he was in for all of 3 scenes and killed.
I felt like the look was too over the top. They just made a whole demonic species so this one guy could look like a demon.
People love Maul and Fett for the same reason that Alien didn’t show the xenomorph until like the second half of the movie: people’s imaginations will come up with something better than you can make almost 100% of the time. They pop on screen just long enough to look cool and maybe say one or two lines of dialogue to get the fans going, and then disappear. They’re the character equivalents of those lore-bait games that don’t have an actual story, just hints of stuff for fans to make YouTube videos about.
The prequels suck so much arse. They are proof positive that George Lucas did not make Star Wars on his own because without his ex and Kasdan what we got was unmitigated garbage with hideous design choices, awful soporific dialogue, overwrought action scenes and terrible, racist humour.
Fuck the prequels and fuck George Lucas. He ruined Star Wars for the true fans. I saw all of the original trilogy in their first runs. The prequels took a huge shit on everything I loved about Star Wars.
The fight in the very beginning makes zero sense. There is an embargo? But why? Who is fighting who? If you are going to have a pivotal point of the story at least have a clear reason why. Sure they are bullies and they are fighting to move the story, but they kept coming back to it. Make it makes sense.
And rolling in flowers and being a “senator” isn’t a real love story. That’s a manufactured love story. Real life stories are when people are attracted to each other and deny it, and then can only admit it when you are about to be in Carbonite.
There is now a well known podcast called “Blank Check with Griffin and David”, but when it first started back in 2015 it was “Griffin and David Present”. Back then, its original premise was for two epic level film nerds to do a deep (and humorous) dive into the episodes 1-3 and try to answer the question “what is this about?” (Spoiler alert: they are as confused as you are).
The show, like all podcasts, can be divisive. Some people (myself included) love Griffin’s spastic enthusiasm for pop culture, and David’s rooted but optimistic view of cinema, and they both have a deep well of knowledge on all things cinema. Those early episodes are gold, and really made me understand things about where Lucas’s head was at with many choices he made in eps 1-3. They are still terrible movies, but it’s really eye opening to see how Lucas, on his own, makes nothing but terrible choices, and is singularly obsessed with merchandising and taxes.
I should go back and re-listen to them. I hope I’m remembering them accurately, because I remember loving that run of episodes.
It was entertaining in a world building sort of way. But as far as coherent story with in depth characters, it falls short.
But why not midi-chlorians?
It is interesting seeing people like episodes 1-3 now.
I wonder what 20 years will do for 7-9?
JarJar isa Sith Lord!
The line when Qui Gon describes midi-chlorians to baby Darth Vader is the dumbest shit ever:
Without midi-chlorians there would be no life and we would have no knowledge of the midi-chlorians.
Like no fucking shit we would have no knowledge of something if there was NO LIFE numbnuts.
Not to mention crushing the dreams of millions of aspiring Jedi.
Oh you can’t have the force, you don’t have enough of this canon-altering mitochondria allegory.
Baby Darth Vader… Cute until you think about it. And… They clearly picked Natalie Portman for the role of Luke and Leah’s mother… Why did they pick so young of an actor? Too old to start training!? It’s almost as if they wrote it with a 17 year old in mind but somehow forgot the “mah Christmas merchandising” rewrites.
Ugh such a mess!
Without midi-chlorians there would be no life and we would have no knowledge of the midi-chlorians.
it’s a shittier version of the anthropic principle
Without midi-chlorians there would be no life and we would have no knowledge of the midi-chlorians.
“Without midi-chlorians there would be no life and we would have no BLTs.”
Let’s stop the collective gaslighting of pretending the prequels were good just because the new trilogy was garbage.
Let’s stop the collective gaslighting of pretending the prequels were good just because the new trilogy was also garbage.
FTFY
Guys, calm down, it’s been garbage the whole time, it’s your attachment to the movie you had when you watched them at an impressionable age that makes them feel better to you.
I hear what you’re saying, but as a fairly big literary and film snob, I’ll argue that A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back were bubblegum pop approaching art like a well-realized pop music album that transcends being “just entertainment.” I’ll use some music analogies, since that’s where I have the most background:
Francis Ford Coppola : Steven Spielberg : George Lucas :: Bob Dylan : Neil Young : Paul Simon.
You’ve got the auteurs that are out make artistic pieces that may or may not be appreciated in their time, you’ve got the prolific hit machines that churn out album after album (movie after movie) of insightful, well-made work, and then you’ve got the pop, “lowest common denominator” creators that can be game changers (esp. with the right collaborators and editing), but also have a lot of dreck in their back catalogs.
I would argue that despite the OT being pop-friendly action sci-fi, there was artistry present, especially in the special effects, the story telling, and the world-building. I mean, shit, the diegesis alone is pretty much a masterclass in how to build a living, breathing fiction universe, in a way that I’m not sure has ever been surpassed.
Bottom line: are they kids’ movies? yes. Are they strong enough to stand on their own as significant artistic works in the same echelon as The Godfather? I would argue that Ep. 4-5 are, yes. Am I still answering my own rhetorical questions? Also yes.
This is some dumbass elitism. Let people enjoy what they enjoy. Star Wars is a space fantasy. Rey gets Jar Jar pregnant in the lost 10th movie. It was glorious.
Regardless of genre any work of fiction should have cohesive plot and characterization. It’s not elitism to say that the new trilogy is hobbled by numerous, avoidable writing pitfalls.
The other films had writing problems as well but not nearly as many as the new films. People are free to enjoy the new trilogy but they are poorly written.
And yes, I’m aware of how fucking cringe the dialogue in the prequels was.
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Well if that isn’t putting words in my mouth I don’t know what is.
It was the exact sentiment of your comment.
People are allowed to like things you don’t like. I feel sorry for people like you who literally work yourselves up into such a rage because some piece of entertainment didn’t pan out the way you wanted. Best of luck in life with that attitude!
Only one of us is worked up into a rage.
It ain’t me.
No, people must know that their enjoyment is wrong!!! ;P
Thanks for that mental image lol
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I fell asleep during ep 9 in theatres and have never been down to rewatch it. Mandalorian i gave up early on when a guy flew by a spaceship and gave a thumbs up… but you should check our Andor! It’s pretty good!
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I think the simple answer to why Andor, is that he is the type of character Tony Gilroy wanted to write about. His being situated in the star wars universe is mostly unimportant, aside from being an avenue to get disney funding. Andor could easily be sci-fi unrelated to Star Wars at all, there are some misc easter eggs and the Empire exists, but it’d be super easy to file the serial numbers off, and change some of the aesthetics and names.
Andor isn’t significant to “skywalker saga” Star Wars, he’s just some dude who is pretty competent who starts as a self interested disaffected lowlife dude, and who becomes radicalized to join the nascent rebel alliance. It’s just a good story, and I’m glad Tony Gilroy was able to get disney bux to fund it. Its easily the best Star Wars that Disney has made, maybe that anyone has made if I take off my rose-tinted glasses. It’s honestly kind of surprising to me that the script got past disney, given how they’ve gone about Star Wars.
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I didn’t actually know Cassian was from that movie! Someone else mentioned that to me when I was mid season lmao. I was watching it as a true one off kind of show with a totally new character!
This is basically my starwars story too, though I skipped book of boba fett, and watched obi wan. Obi wan was a huge miss for me, felt like it was 3 times longer than it really had the juice for.
All that said, I loved Andor and am excited for season 2, though I have basically no interest in any future Star Wars beyond it.
I’m a bit younger than you but I grew up with the '95 box set and saw the PT in theaters, similar experience, and I agree with your assessment of TFA, it’s not great but has its moments. Personally I really liked TLJ despite its flaws and it made me hope the series was finally about to go somewhere new. But yeah don’t bother with RoS, it’s a disjointed mess of a film made of IRL petty grudges played out on screen strung together with lame maguffin storytelling and “plot twists” from left field.
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In ten years people will simp for the Sequels and shit on… whatever the newest movie is… “The new protag’s not as cool as Rey!!1111”
It’ll happen
We’ve seen it before with the prequels.
This meme wouldn’t fly like 18 years ago. Prequels sparking joy? Please, not the Phantom Menace.
Serious question, how often have you rewatched the prequel trilogy? Say what you want about the sequel trilogy, but at least it can be entertaining. The prequels can be so boring.
i really like the prequels, i also seem to have a low bar for “good movie” since i also count ready player one as one of my favourites.
i like mediocre but fun movies, and i stand by that.
Episode 3 is genuinely good for me, I like as a kid and I still like it, the others 2 is really boring
I have no desire to watch the prequels or sequels again, but if I had to pick one to watch it would be the prequels.
A couple times. I found the sequels to be much worse movies than the prequels. I mean, episode 7 is okay-ish. It’s mostly episode 4 again. Episode 8 shit the bed. I didn’t watch 9. The original trilogy is a good story.
People HATED the prequels when they came out, trust me. Your kids will love the new trilogy and you’ll remember it with fondness. That’s just the way it goes.
Only if they want to be disowned for not understanding that there isn’t friction in space 😤
So friction is where you draw the line? Not huge explosions and sound?
Are explosions cool?
I’m a teen right now and when I watched The Last Jedi back in 2017, I hated it because they ruined the character of Luke Skywalker.
In 20 years you’re going to be trying to find something to watch and flicking through the channels/streamers you’re going to see it and realize you haven’t watched it in ages. Then the nostalgia will kick in and it won’t seem half as bad as you thought it was in 2017 (dear god 2037 isn’t as far away as it feels 🫨) and you’ll actually enjoy it. You might even have a few youngins you want to share the experience with and you’ll spend Christmas vacation watching the entire franchise with the littles.
It happens to all of us eventually. Well, a lot of us.
V, half of IV and Rogue One spark joy.
The rest, not so much.
I tried something new a few weeks ago to kick off an update machete order that I thought worked surprisingly well. I started with the start of act 3 of Rogue One. Going into that blind, not knowing the characters or what specifically they were trying to accomplish, seeing some blind monk guy walk and act by faith instead of sight to do something at a console, they sacrifice all to beam some kind of signal, and then this towering menace in all black just shows up and slaughters a bunch of dudes… It perfectly leads into IV and enhances it without the time commitment or pacing issues of watching all of Rogue One. I love Mads but we really just don’t need to even see him for the important bits of the story. Vader becomes even more mysterious and threatening this way, the “plans” in IV are given more weight and don’t just seem like a macguffin to give the empire a reason to give chase, and Luke becomes relatively more of an unlikely hero because he’s just a kid caught in the middle of a star war.
I’m not gonna say that Rogue One is bad, but for watching the entire saga it feels like a slog to watch the whole thing. As somebody who considers IV to be a 10/10 masterpiece, (especially for 1977 before anything like this existed, and before George Lucas changed shit for no reason,) I gotta know which half of IV is the half that sparks joy for you. Maybe my favorite moment in the entire franchise is when Luke storms out and looks at the twin sunset, yearning to leave his small and inconsequential life, John Williams’ score swelling into the frustrated sobbing that only a teenager trapped in a small town with a small life could truly understand. It’s his Disney princess moment.
Rogue One perfectly leading into Ep IV is a great achievement for the film.
Every time I watch it I want to immediately watch IV. It’s why I was so hyped for Andor
I can agree on the Rogue One. But the rest…😒
You might be the only person I’ve heard of who didn’t like IV and V, but liked Rogue One. I’m picturing a thread with people debating whether Terminator 1 or 2 is better, and you’re like “those are mid, Genisys is the one I like.” It’s just a fascinatingly rare take.
Empire Strikes Back is pretty universally acclaimed as being in the top 2 of star wars movie, and most people’s #1. I’m curious what didn’t do it for you. Is it just too old now? Overhyped? Do you think the pacing is bad and you get bored? Genuinely, I would expect that if somebody didn’t like that one, they didn’t like any of them except maybe one of the new shows like Andor and/or The Mandalorian, mostly because they are tonally different and appeal to a different, wider audience.
Not even close. T1 is innovative and good, T2 have even better action scene, then stop, nothing else is worth mentioning in the franchise. Rogue one give a new and fresh “spy story” view of the SW story, it shows more complex side of the conflict and both the story and the characters are interesting. I like Andor for the same reason. I find the first and second season of the Madalorian nice too, for the way they show a new “road-side view” aspect of the SW universe, sadly it becomes quickly too “bigger than life” in the third season.
That makes sense. It did feel a lot more grounded than the main entries. I think a lot of my apprehension to the characters was knowing that they couldn’t possibly matter beyond that movie because it’s a prequel to a trilogy that doesn’t mention them, so I knew they would probably just die soon. That just made it harder for me to get invested. But you’re right, it’s cool to see the seedy side of the galaxy and it sells that the rebels are scrappy regular people who are justified in their rebellion.
Director Wars
I like ep7 honestly. It has problem, but it’s also…fun? Ep8 is pure nonsense(carpet bomber in space…? Jedi leia?) and it makes me drop the whole franchise. I heard ep9 is even more nonsense.
I fell asleep watching ep1 lol.
Jedi Leia has some formerly canonical basis. She should have already been a full Jedi well before ep7 even if you throw out the entire EU, as Disney did.
Resetting canon to only include the movies and shows was criminal in my opinion, since they would have literally had decades worth of scripts in those books.
The ridiculous Mary Poppins scene was not the way to introduce Jedi Leia.
that is a much more coherent opinion, and one I share completely. They absolutely should have had Leia training Rey in some capacity first, although I have to assume Fisher’s age, if not her health, may have influenced their decisions on where to take her character.
It’s long-established established canon that Leia is force-sensitive (Luke outright says as much in TLJ), and that force-pulling can be done without training (though I’m sure she picked some things up from Luke over the years). If Leia using the force caught you off-guard I’m sorry but like that was like my first expectation when I heard Leia would be in the sequels.
Also it’s so strange to me that people say it looked like Mary Poppins to them. have you never watched video of people in microgravity? it was honestly a pretty realistic depiction of how things behave in vacuum and zero-g, and I found the scene breathtaking.
My theater broke out in laughter at the scene. The problem isn’t that Leia can use the force. The problem is that it’s the only force use that moves the user, at least it’s depicted that way. There’s also the lack of vacuum in the whole scene, or did Leia also give herself a force spacesuit while being blown away?
exposure to vacuum doesn’t cause people to explosively decompress, that’s a hollywood myth and it was refreshing to see it subverted. the human body simply isn’t that pressurized, it’s feasible to survive that long in vacuum provided you get immediate care.
also, 1) the ship is massive and she’s tiny, it would look the same if she was pulling the ship towards her, 2) physics doesn’t care about the distinction because it depends on frame of reference, and 3) exerting a force on an object exerts an opposite force on you, per Newton’s first law.
you should really broaden your horizons, it was a spectacular scene and I’m sorry you aren’t literate enough to appreciate it.
The force doesn’t follow physics, if it did Yoda would have been crushed several times. If the ship did move to her, I would expect the people on the ship to notice the sudden change in direction, and all the fighters should notice as well, but no one calls it out. There’s also people just standing I’m what should be a vacuum on the ship where she lands, and those people are just fine.
The whole scene is a great example of style over substance. The repeated use of these scenes makes the movie worse.a
I’m just gonna leave aside your nonsense understanding of physics, and the way realistic physics are both good and bad for the movie accoring to what you want to nitpick next, and focus on that last bit.
When has star wars ever NOT been style over substance? When has any of it ever made good sense, or been consistent? It’s a cheesy franchise about space wizards that has been 100% Rule of Cool top to bottom since the very first installment. I think you just want to hate the movie because you were told to hate the movie.
In fairness, all the space combat in Star Wars is nonsense. It’s modeled on WW2-era dogfighting (hence the bombers), and none of it makes any sense in space.
Anything before makes some sense, but a sloooooow moving carpet bomber that only works when on top of other spacecraft? I find it hard to believe it’s mass produced, that’s where i have to suspend my logical sense on top of my disbelieve for it to make sense, and it’s only one small part of the problem.
Personally I don’t think it’s any worse than anything else in Star Wars.
Like the “blockade” formation in TPM - that would never even kind of work to shut down traffic, planets are BIG and incoming ships could simply go around the blockade ships.
Or Jango Fett’s bass bombs in episode 2 shattering asteroids with shock waves - how are they propagating with no medium to propagate through?
Or the trench run in ANH, and luke’s torpedo turning 90 degrees on a dime to go down the vent - why were they approaching from that angle in the first place? How does the torpedo just, suddenly change direction?
Or primitive teddy-bear aliens using rocks and sticks to absolutely ROFLstomp a galaxy-spanning empire armed with high-tech sci-fi superweapons in RotJ - imagine if the US failed to invaded Sentinel Island. Is that even distantly believable or realistic?
Or the way ships apparently have gravity at all times no matter what - in fact explaining it away with “artificial gravity generators” would lend itself to bombs dropped into that artificial gravity well making some kind of sense as a tactic, no?
Or lightsabers being lasers that just… stop. and are semisolid, somehow… lightsabers don’t make a single lick of sense but they look wizard af.
Or like a billion other things in Star Wars that are nonsensical but visually fantastic, because you’re not meant to think that hard about it, and most people who do seem to do so selectively based on whether they want to like the movie.
