I have yet to see a single rational reason to vote no. I just don’t get it. How could you possibly be against consulting people before you make decisions that affect those people?
Do the No voters think that the government shouldn’t listen to the AMA when making health policy? That they shouldn’t listen to teachers and principals when they make education policy?
I think some of the “No” reasons are valid questions to ask, so simply brushing them off as irrational is not going to win over anyone sitting on the fence. When I have spoken with family & friends, some of their uncertainty and concerns can be found amongst the ten No arguments.
For example, the question of inequitable representation (point #3 of the No arguments) is a fair one. Shouldn’t all Australians, regardless of their gender, race, or ancestry be represented equally in the Constitution?
In 1962, all Indigenous Australians were given the fair right to vote, giving them the same level of voice and representation as that of any Australian citizen. This resolved the issue of equal voting rights, which allows all Australians to have their voice equally represented in parliament. The Voice would now add an additional representation above what voting provides to the average Australian and it will be mandated in the Constitution.
Which personal factors determine if one can be awarded this additional amount of representation? Do you have to prove you are Indigenous by way of a blood test, a written exam, a form of ID, or just by stating that you identify as an Indigenous Australian? I even know of some people who have claimed benefits of Indigenous Australians (e.g. scholarships) when they themselves were Pacific Islander. How pure does your bloodline need to be in order to receive additional representation?Your argument is driven by racism. The same old tired racist arguments that have been floating around since time immemorial.
“People are just claiming they are Aboriginal to get government handouts”
“They’re not really asylum seekers they are economic migrants looking for government handouts”
“They are going to create a new level of government so they can claim government handouts”
They are not getting inequitable representation. They are effectively being given a constitutionally recognised lobby group. The Government of the day will be able to completely ignore them like they ignore climate scientists and environmentalists.
Ok yes. “But then why does it need to be in the constitution” because the Coalition disbanded every non constitutionally recognised group that has ever been created.
RIKSY
UNKOWN
DIVISIVE
PERMANENTYou can tell you should be worried because they use scary words and CAPITAL LETTERS. I also love how they put “it opens the door to activists” like it’s a bad thing. Personally I wouldn’t mind if Australia Day were replaced with a Treaty Day if that came to pass. It’s just an excuse to get absolutely pissed around a barbie anyway.
deleted by creator
Thought provoking post. I want to do everything possible to help address aboriginal issues. But I would have preferred they trial the voice for a couple of years first to see if it works and iron out any issues. Then if it’s a success, use that as evidence why it should be added to the constitution. It seems wild to commit to something before we’ve really tried it.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
I disagree with your political position, but I do agree with your stance on being disrespected.
I still feel like you should reply, but take the high road, continue to be respectful and address the points of disagreement. I want to see where this conversation goes.
deleted by creator
Very, very sick of the no campaign brigading every discussion with terrible arguments in bad faith.
I have yet to encounter a legal expert, or for that matter, an Indigenous Australian who is accepted by their community, who is opposed. Similarly, the law is my degree. I’ve spent five years of my life studying it, and although I’m not a graduate yet (two units to go), I’d think I’d know more about this shit than Joe from bumfuck nowhere on Facebook.
There is no case for a no vote. None whatsoever. The change would not grant special rights to Indigenous Australians. It has been repeatedly explained by both lawyers and politicians. You can read the change yourself. It has to be a constitutional change, because that protects it from being outright removed by successive governments, which is the very thing that happened to the previous body that performed this role. By definition, it is not racist, as racism refers to negative treatment on the basis of race or ethnic background, and not differing treatment. This is one of three steps proposed by Indigenous Australians towards reconciliation, and isn’t the endpoint. If it fails, it will be the endpoint.
When the colonisers arrived, Indigenous Australians outnumbered colonisers. Now, they make up just 2.5% of the population. We are driving them to extinction. If this fails, by the time we get around to trying again, it is likely the genocide will have all but been completed.
Ethically and morally, a yes vote is the only choice. Legally, it is the best choice for change.
I still honestly don’t know which way to vote. Most of my indigenous friends have been posting on socials saying to vote no, so I’ll probably go that way, but part of me just thinks no matter how tokenistic and kinda “us white men good, help black fella have say” it comes across, surely having it would have to be better than not having it?
Why couldn’t this just be like gay marriage where the only reason you’d vote no is because you’re a religious nut or a bigot? (unfortunately, it seems 40% of our population fit into those categories)
The “yes” brochure arguments really sound like a lot of political fluff. “Recognition”…cool, but what does that get them? What does “being recognized in the constitution” mean? “Listening”…ok but are you actually going to do anything? Who are you listening to out of the hundreds/thousands(?) of indigenous tribes around the country? “Better Results”…so got any actual plans for those things? How does the voice help achieve those results?
Having now looked at the “no” brochure, they basically echo what I just asked above haha. The Government literally won’t divulge the details of what the Voice actually entails. That seems super dodgy.
I mean, there’s a 270 page report about the design of the thing here https://voice.gov.au/resources/indigenous-voice-co-design-process-final-report
With zero answers for the main things people want to know, like how many parole are appointed, how they’re appointed, how long they’re appointed for, what powers they have, etc.
As a result of this, and through careful deliberation, the final proposal for a National Voice is a 24-member model including 5 members representing remote regions, and one member representing the significant number of Torres Strait Islanders living on the mainland. (p. 12)
Members of the Local & Regional Voices within each state and territory would collectively determine National Voice members from their respective jurisdictions. (p. 12)
Members would serve 4-year terms. These terms would be staggered, with half the membership determined every 2 years to ensure continuity. There would be a limit of 2 consecutive terms per member. (p. 108)
• The National Voice would be an advisory body to the Australian Parliament and Government. These relationships would be two-way interactions, with either party able to initiate advice or commence discussion around relevant policy matters… The National Voice would have no power to veto laws made by the Parliament or decisions made by the Australian Government. (p. 109)
I’ll be voting Yes. If over the coming months we were to find out that somehow the Voice to Parliament will have a negative impact on demands for Treaties, truth telling, sovereignty among other things then I might change my mind but I find that unlikely. Who knows.
The big problem for me after seeing these is that it seems the government is refusing to give us actual details on what the Voice to Parliament entails. Why are they being so secretive about it and asking us to vote on something that they won’t tell us what it is?
I don’t think it’s anything nefarious. More like Labor shooting themselves in the foot by running a shit campaign.
Very possible unfortunately. Not having an answer for basic questions like how many people are appointed, how they’re appointed, and for how long is pathetic.
The cynic in me goes straight to that there’s a reason why they’re not divulging these things and it’s because the yes voters wouldn’t like the answers.
More billshit, that assertion has already been directly disproven earlier in this thread. Why are you so committed to posting misinformation?
It was not disproven. If it is then you should be able to answer my questions in the comment you replied to then, right?
How many people are appointed?
How are they appointed?
How long are the terms of appointment?
deleted by creator
