- cross-posted to:
- earthscience@mander.xyz
- unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
- cross-posted to:
- earthscience@mander.xyz
- unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
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People in here are arguing about whether the government should be able to allow or disallow protests, i.e. “legal” or “illegal” protests.
I think Denmark has a good middle ground solution to this: Protests must be declared to the police ahead of time, so they know it is happening. Note that this is not an application or an ask for permission! You always have permission, you only have to make the police aware that you are protesting, so they can monitor it and ensure it follows law and order and doesn’t turn violent.
France works that way as well.
On paper, but the city will still say “Friday’s not good for us, how about next never?” Then the protest still happens but now the police can say the protest was announced too late and is violent while setting a corn field on fire with their tear gas. Which just happened this weekend.
Should be like, two days or more’s warning is the only requirement, they can’t say no. In Denmark, it’s 24 hours but they can prevent it.
Well, there’s the theory and the practice…
You always have permission*
* terms and conditions may apply
Protestation IS democracy you fucking fascists.
Legal protests are. Illegal protestation is anarchy.
There is no such thing as an illegal protest. That is a concept made up by the people being protested against so that they can squash it. Protests are not supposed to be “convenient”. They are not supposed to be comfortable or nice or pretty. They are supposed to force people to face the issue and band together to bring about real change.
That’s not how it works. There is no country where protesting in the middle of the street without a permit is legal. There absolutely is something like illegal protesting, and what Just Stop Oil did was one example. Protests are about being seen, not causing inconvenience or even danger. You are not above the law just because you’re protesting. Getting a permit and demonstrating outside the white house would have been the correct way to go about this.
The only people who banded together as a result of this protest were angry drivers banding together to remove the nuisance, and climate deniers who got radicalized by the rage, seeing Just Stop Oil protests.
It’s one thing not to like illegal protests and a different one to equate them with anarchy. I understand that the term “anarchy” is often used as a synonym to “lawlessness” but in reality it is a movement that aims to eradicate societal hierarchies and replace them with horizontal organizational structures.
Also as I’m sure you know, law is not set in stone, it does change. Many things that are legal now, were illegal in the past. Sometimes in order to influence lawmakers we need to do illegal stuff, like non-violent disruptive protests.
If you want to change the law, you contact politicians, sign petitions, protest in a way that doesn’t prevent emergency vehicles or public transport from reaching their destinations, and you vote during election. If that isn’t enough, you run for office. Doing illegal stuff isn’t justified at all.
Your 8-hour work week was achieved by “illegal protests” among other things. Getting rid of the divine right of kings was “illegal”.
Setting the world on fire is somehow not “illegal” though.
That’s appropriate when you’re trying to change certain things, not everything. When you’re trying to get civil rights or anything else that the higher ruling class doesn’t want you to have, it can and usually does necessitate illegal and violent protesting and uprising.
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Of course what you describe is a way of doing things. What you say and what I said are not exclusionary. People can have both legal and illegal approaches on the same topic. Sometimes it is justifiable on moral grounds to break the law, and many countries recognize that need in their constitutions.
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If the protest isn’t illegal, you aren’t protesting, you are having a parade.
That’s an extremist take, and I disagree with it.
Guys, I’m planning to cause a traffic jam, and you all are invited.
Oh wait, that’s just normal traffic. Oh well, see y’all in jail.
It is not acceptable anywhere. This “in a democracy” bit is just taking away blaim from dictator who do this kind of stuff all the time.
No, the point of the sentence isn’t to take away blame. It is to compare them to dictatorships. I.E. Add more blame
I still don’t understand why JSO is bothering common folk with their protests, go block politicians - you know, the people who YOU want to make the treatise to stop the use of oil!
I agree with what they want (though it would’ve been nice if they had a plan how to slow down our oil use, but then again they’re no experts on that), but I do think they’re being dumb on how to achieve it. You don’t see Union Strikers block off a highway to get what they want, they’ll instead block off some plant where they work - now that makes sense! Go bother politicians.
The problem with “they should have a plan” is that we have viable plans and nobody that’s currently benefiting from oil will take any steps towards implementing them.
Just Stop Oil are the people that were blocking traffic of normal everyday citizens.
Their sentences weren’t lengthy enough in my opinion.
Am I a liberal? I expect protests to have permission beforehand just like they need in Sweden where I am from. They would have been charged there too.
Government sanctioned protest ain’t no protest lol. If you’re protesting the government action by asking their permission, might as well write them angry letter so they can throw it in the bin quicker.
You can’t justify breaking the law by claiming it is for the greater good, and blocking traffic is breaking the law. Whether you agree with it or not, this is how the world works. Same applies everywhere. If you have a problem with how a kindergarten works, you don’t waltz in there and start blocking toddlers from entering. If you hate the food at a restaurant you don’t spit in everyone elses plates. Not only is it illegal, it is detrimental to the message you’re trying to spread. Find a different method to make your voice heard instead of being probably the most hated type of illegal protester in the world.
Actually I can justify breaking a law that I find unjust ❤️
Good thing we have a justice system to put people like you in jail then.
most hated type of illegal protester in the world.
Fucking lol, real first world problems over here.
You’re saying “it is what it is”, but what you’re actually saying is this is how it should be while others are arguing it should not.
Change the law and your argument evaporates.
That only works if a government wants to let you protest. And if people will even pay attention if you’re protesting in a “citizen approved protesting location”.
Kind of pointless to protest if no one pays attention to you.
- For the convenience of our constituents, protest hours are 10:00-14:00 every second Thursday of the month.
- Citizens may apply for a protest permit at their local post office.
- In the event that potential protestors have different local post offices, each protestor must apply at all applicable post offices, indicating their post code of origin on the back of page 27 (BLUE INK ONLY).
- Duplicate applications will be denied.
- Please state clearly the reason for the proposed protest in the application in 25 words or less.
- Applications take approximately 6-8 weeks per word to process. Successful applicants will be notified by post no later than 12 April of the following year.
- Approved protests must be addressed to the brick wall behind the library and are confined to the space enclosed by the chain link fence.
- If multiple approved protests occur on the same day, please form a queue, tallest to shortest. The group with the most amount of members in the top quartile will be granted the protest space for the day. Others will need to re-apply after a 60-day probationary period.
- Chants will be kept to a conversational speaking volume.
- For the safety of the public, no food or drink will be allowed.
- Infractions of the rules as outlined in the application will result in the locking of the fence gate for a period of no less than 6 days.
- Further punishments are determined at the sole discretion of the Peaceable Protest Committee. Sentences start at 5 years with no maximum. Appeals may be made after the sentence has been served.
You’re justifying breaking the law just because you think the cause is good.
I promise you that this kind of protest has the exact opposite effect. Look at the comment section of any youtube video showing protests like this, and you’ll see what kind of radicalization this brings.
Get a permit, and protest in a safe way where you can still be seen, but not cause inconvenience or danger. If you think the government would deny you such a permit, then I congratulate you in making news headlines and successfully getting the entire population on your side.
I think if you’re looking at a YouTube comment section for a rational point of view about anything, you’ve already lost the plot.
Youtube is as Normie as you can get with the younger generation (the biggest allies of stopping climate change). And of course it isn’t going to be rational. There is nothing rational about this. It is to invoke an emotional response and that’s what you see in the comment section.
I’m sorry, but only radicalized individuals have any sympathy for the Just Stop Oil protesters.
No, youtube is a breeding ground for idiots when it comes to politics. Every comment and every dislike gives a video impressions so that the algorithm shows it to others. Youtube makes bank with hatret just as fox news does. You can bet that all the jzst stop oil clips will be shown to a audience that hates rhem more than people who feel indifferent about them or agree with them. Why? Because they dont comment on the videos.
These people hate what they see but still watch it and then comment on it so youtube shows them more off it.
The science largely disagrees with you; but as usual there are no clear cut answers on such complex topics.
On Armistice Day, EDL protesters marched towards the Cenotaph (without permission) and launched fireworks that were intended to hit people and did strike policemen in the face. Let’s see if they get 5 years.
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It would be the maximum possible sentence for assault.
Peaceful protest should not be a cause for government punishment at all, this sentence is absolutely insane and should be revoked at the earliest convenience.
The new government should restore our right to protest policies without fear of imprisonment.
There is nothing peaceful about blocking traffic.
It is first off illegal to protest on a busy road unless you’ve acquired a permit and have a way to redirect traffic. What they were doing were illegal protests.
Second, it doesn’t matter what your message is. If you block traffic, you are the biggest cunt there is, and you are actively harming your own cause by showing the world what kind of people you are. If you’ve seen the videos, and read the comments, you know that 99% of the people are cheering when angry drivers pull the protesters by their hair out of the streets.
The entitlement of some people the moment they have a car. “Somebody took 20min of my time, they literally deserve 5 years in jail and to be assaulted in public.”. You’re sick, nothing your doing is important, sit in traffic and seeth. If you don’t like it, take the train.
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Booo. This is a bad opinion. You should feel bad.
It is the opinion everyone except Just Stop Oil has.
Lol you’re delusional if you think that most people would want others imprisoned for years for conspiring to cause traffic or even to cause it.
Go to youtube. Search “just stop oil protests”. Open up the comment section. Come back here and let me know how it went.
YouTube comments are almost always a cesspool of bad opinions so I’d rather not.
“Community A bad. Only community B’s opinions matter”
Literally this.
No tolerance for intolerance.
This has to be the worst way to inform yourself you could possibly choose. Very telling.
I think Just Stop Oil are largely a bunch of morons, but I still think a five year prison sentence for conspiracy to peacefully protest is abhorrent.
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“I can’t go to my office job or to get more mayo from asda because those wankers are protesting the end of the world!? Death penalty to them!”
Emergency vehicles exist. People can lose their jobs. It’s a bunch of priviliged middle-upper-class white people blocking traffic for lower class people trying to do their jobs. We use cheap options that are bad for the environment because people can’t afford the environmentally friendly alternatives, and these cunts prevent people from making a living. And I never said they deserve the death penalty. No one deserves the death penalty.
Emergency vehicles exist.
And can be routed intelligently, and protests overwhelmingly let them pass. Traffic jams should also let them pass.
People can lose their jobs.
Is it so bad in the UK that a single day being late can justify an employer to fire people? I think you should join the protestors.
Do you think that their protest action should instead not inconvenience anyone so that it can continue to be ignored like all climate protests of that nature have been for decades?
They can inconvenience people in a way that doesn’t disrupt traffic and prevent emergency vehicles from getting to their destinations. Like being loud and waving signs.
So yes, you want people to protest in the same manner that has been ignored for decades. Gotcha.
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