Should we stay for the revolution? If it’s even possible?

I’ve seen some on the internet (mainly TikTok and twitter, sue me) say that moving to another country to escape your problems (this is mostly directed to those in the US and Canada) is a form of colonialism and you would contribute to gentrifying the country you leave to. Do you agree?

I’ve mentioned on here a few times my disdain for living in Canada and how I am happy to leave when I am able, I’ve even had some comrades encourage me to do so if I can, so for a time I was sure that moving was an okay thing to do but now I don’t know. I don’t want to gentrify another nation and I don’t want to abandon people here who aren’t afforded the same privileges as me. I figured maybe I could help from a distance, or at the very least “visiting”to help but not living here, does that make sense?

Anyway, I really wanted to move away but now I’m not so sure and I may be causing more damage by leaving. I don’t want to colonize another place, I’m already a settler in Canada and I wasn’t planning on moving to Portugal either (locals can barely afford to live there themselves). I know I shouldn’t be taking statements made on social media so seriously but I can’t help but take these criticisms into consideration.

  • K__@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    edit-2
    3 months ago

    Moving to another country to live there wouldn’t make you a settler unless you have / reinforce special privileges over the natives. Going to a country and integrating into their society would just make you an immigrant.

  • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    3 months ago

    You can’t ‘gentrify’ a place with your mere presense.

    People saying you’d gentrify a place by moving there are making assumptions about:

    • the community you’re moving to,

    • what your relative wealth would be in that community, and

    • how you’d spend that wealth and engage with local business and culture.

    None of those assumptions reflect well on the people making them. Fuck’em.

    If you can, leave Canada. Be part of the brain drain. And move to an AES country so that your friends and family in Canada have a window into what life is like there.

    • rainpizza@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      3 months ago

      Completely agree with this. I had a debate with one of my colleagues at work due to this topic. She told me that every buyer is to blame for the gentrification. That conversation didn’t end well but I still made it a point that is never the buyer’s fault. It is actually the people that hold the real estate that can choose which price to sell it to. The land speculators are the people that hold the blame for this.

      Everyone should have the right to housing and nobody should be discriminated for that. Sad that propaganda has made it so difficult for people to see the real people that hold power over housing.

    • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      3 months ago

      The explanation of gentrification I saw most was very very vague but one person, an American woman who lives in Budapest, gave an explanation that I think is good although I don’t know: gentrification would be me moving to an area where the locals can’t afford to live, but I can, and therefore me moving there and being willing to pay the high price drives up costs there. I wouldn’t do that, or at least I’d try not to by doing research and whatnot. I don’t want to move to a country with limited reserves, not because they don’t deserve me, but because I don’t want to drain what they have. I am also not a wealthy person at all, I know moving (especially to another country) takes quite a bit of money so I can’t just up and leave, this is a future endeavour after saving up enough money for the flights (and pet fees…).

      I have never heard of the term “brain drain” but when looking it up, it’s incredibly accurate to what I was going for and offering a view into what goes on there. Thank your input, I appreciate it!

  • plinky [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    3 months ago

    Meh, nobody forces people to climb into walled compounds and hiring local serfs to do your bidding. You can be of the place. And bringing imperial core money (if you do do that) into periphery is net good, whatever the feelings, unless you come as imf consultant how to better sell utilities and mining rights.

  • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    3 months ago

    From the standpoint of being a settler and the like, I’d think it’s only an issue if you are coming into some other country and expecting their culture to change for you, rather than expecting to adapt to what their culture is, especially if the expected change revolves around western imperialist norms.

    To the point of abandoning those who can’t, I think there is no single “correct” answer and you kind of have to judge based on your situation. For example, some things for a person with our kind of ideology to consider: Are you doing it for safety? For individual material convenience, with no intention of contributing to the revolutionary processes of the country you move to? In other words, do you intend to do what you can to contribute to community and to the struggle elsewhere, or is it more a tiredness and exhaustion with fighting and a desire to escape from it, similar in spirit to retreating into a fantasy world to avoid problems in RL life? The anti-imperialist struggle reaches across the whole world, so there’s no real escaping it. But people can have various good reasons for wanting to move, whether it’s going somewhere that actually accepts them or is safe for them or is something they can contribute to meaningfully that they can’t figure out how to do where they are. The imperial core does need people who know what they’re doing to fight back from within, to help protect regular folks caught up in it and especially the most marginalized groups, but it’s also a worldwide struggle, so there will always be stuff you can do somewhere, if you look for it. And for some people, it might turn out they’re more effective elsewhere than they are in the imperial core. Or they might be able to learn things from communists abroad that they can later bring back. Doesn’t necessarily have to be seen as a commitment for life.

    (Mind you, I’m not asking you to answer these questions here and I know at least one point you already addressed in OP, just posing them as stuff for people to think about.)

  • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    3 months ago

    I’ve seen some on the internet

    Sounds like this is your first issue. Though you should try not to gentrify and certainly not be a settler about things if you migrate.

    I don’t want to abandon people here who aren’t afforded the same privileges as me

    Martyrdom also doesn’t help anyone. Also (as someone who still has empathy for the individuals, etc. and who lives here and has family/friends here) fuck the west, fuck it to oblivion. The ball is in the west’s court as to whether they will accept their place within the rest of humanity or continue trying to rule over the world as “ubermensch” thieves and genocidaires.

    If you can move, and if it makes sense to you, by all means, move. Almost certainly you won’t be asking yourself these questions (hell, you’ll be regretting having had asked) if and when they come for you and you’re still around.

    Canadian as well and I don’t identify as a settler (not white, though I sure as hell don’t identify as indigenous to this place- I’m not) but I can say for sure I’ll get the hell out when and if I can. Fuck this place, fuck this society (there are good individuals, but the society is rotten to the core), fuck it all. You may as well consider yourself living in Weimar Germany if you ask me (perhaps a more unhinged Weimar Germany, as this state and society has effectively no indigeneity unlike the indigenous-to-central-Europe Germans, and because they’re literally pushing for nuclear WW3 which I doubt even the mustache man would have been so mad as to provoke when MAD is on the table), shit is likely going to go down.

    TBH actually seeing this reminds me of something. I’ll message you about it maybe, idk. But if you can get the hell out (and you want to and can have a better life elsewhere- which by the sounds of it you do) by all means go for it.

    Once again, fuck this country. kkkanada

  • cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    3 months ago

    I’m a Latino Texan and I’m making plans with my grandparents and my girl to emigrate to China hopefully within the next 3-ish years, before the U.S. attacks China.

    I’m gonna start learning the language soon and teaching my family what I can, while we hopefully contact embassies/lawyers and transfer social security stuff.

    I wish you luck. Don’t worry about feeling like you’re running away or taking advantage of others just by moving. Not only is that most likely not true, but it’s a very unhealthy and self-sabotaging outlook. As plinky said, unless you’re like a IMF or World Bank douchebag, you’re just doing what you have to do to survive.

    • diegeticalt (any)@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      3 months ago

      What angle are you looking to use? Employment in China, or something else? I’d love to do the same, but don’t think it’s possible for me.

    • SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.mlOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      3 months ago

      Your timeline is actually incredibly similar to my theoretical one (around 3 years). I definitely wont be an IMF or WB stooge lol I would be working as a professor, if the theoretical country will have me. Thank you for your comment, it helps a lot!

  • DankZedong @lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    3 months ago

    I left my home country due to housing shortage over there. Wasn’t even invited to look at a house in over two years of searching. Oftentimes I was placed somewhere near spot 3000 in a raffle. Moved abroad and found a house within two months of looking.

    Now, I did move to another Western country so I guess it had less of an impact than me moving to let’s say Eastern Europe.

    Anyway, I actually moved towards a country with more revolutionary potential. I’ve found a marxist party to be a member of, which my home country is lacking.

    I don’t know if I would call it some form of colonialism per se. I guess it depends on what you offer. If you move somewhere and take away valuable resources and opportunities from local people maybe it is. I personally moved here without a degree and even without a prospect of a job. Eventually I managed to work myself up towards a good job but I don’t think it was due to some sort of white privilege compared to locals here.

  • multitotal@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    3 months ago

    I’ve been an immigrant all my life. Even now I don’t live in the country where I was born. My advice is: don’t leave. I left with my family when I was too young to make a choice, the choice was made for me. Most people are racist. Not racist in the “arrgg I’ll kill you if you look different” but more in the they’ll never include outsiders into their inner group. This happens regardless if you can speak the same language, if you look similar (even though you’ll always look different than the “natives” and stand out), or attempt to integrate.

    You’ll live fine in the country though, you’ll get a job, friends (some or most could even be locals), you’ll socialise and enjoy the country to the full extent of the law. But that’s as far as you’ll go. First generation immigrants are almost never accepted in the country where they move to. You can surround yourself with the libbiest liberals in any country and you might find a bubble where you don’t feel like an outsider, but as soon as you step out of that tiny bubble, you will feel like a foreigner again.

    I am making plans to return to my home country in the next few years, it’s just money is tight and there’s like no opportunities there. But I decided that I’d rather be poor and be among people who won’t treat me like an alien, than better off but feel like I don’t belong.

  • deathtoreddit@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    3 months ago

    Unless there’s some sort of systematic effort involving you by an organization to commit settler colonialism or do unequal exchange (read labor and resource exploitation of the foreign masses), I don’t think yer a colonizer, but at worst, gentrifier…

  • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    3 months ago

    I think its worse when people move from the global south countries to the imperial core, its a wealth transfer after all.

    • sinovictorchan@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      3 months ago

      Wealth is irrelevant if they lost the workers who generated the wealth. That is why the Western European diaspora need to use the Bretton Woods institution to create debt trapping to then sponsor puppet authoritarian governments, altrocities, and wars to generate a large number of displaced people who the Western European diapora government agents could lure into slavery to replace the depleted child slaves in the Indian Residential fake school system that secretly continued after 1997. The scary red conspiracy theories from the Cold War era had revealed that the Capitalists had always known that Soviets are more hard working and innovative than American Capitalist class despite that claim that Communists follow the Liberal policy to shift to full Communism without the proper material condition and that the Capitalists need heavy government intervention to oppose the invisible hand who is hiring Soviet agents into key positions of Pax Americana to discipline the lazy Capitalists. The high dependency on immigrants of non-European origin and the fear of hard working innovative Communists are prove that wealth transfer is insignificant without the talent and labor of workers.