• slaacaa@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Same with the confederacy:

    • lasted just 4 years
    • lost a war against the USA

    Yet their flags are waived around with pride 250+ years later. How perfectly normal

    • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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      30 days ago

      normie ❌: being anti nazi and anti confederacy because they are evil murderers

      based ✅: being anti nazi and anti confederacy because they suck at winning

      (sarcasm)

    • fckreddit@lemmy.ml
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      30 days ago

      Yeah, certain people can only feel superior to others to cover up for inferiority within themselves.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      30 days ago

      The European World Wars only produced losers. WW1 signaled the beginning of the end of the British Empire, the escalated decline of the French Empire, and the total collapse of the Russian Empire. WW2 obliterated a century of industrial development and squandered a generation of young people on a pointless pissing contest, only to hand the continent to a pair of foreign superpowers.

      The US came out ahead in both wars primarily because they were the last to join and the only ones to escape virtually unscathed.

  • thisisbutaname@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1 month ago

    Well, not to defend the nazis or anything, but they did manage to make considerable amounts of damage and it took multiple great powers working together to beat them back.

    • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      That’s how Fascists work though. They pick fights with bigger and bigger opponents – because they’re invulnerable, you see – until they lose. Their economy was absolutely insane, and required flat out pillaging their neighbours. Eventually your neighbours are too big to pillage.

      • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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        1 month ago

        Isn’t that not just an imperialistic trait, not necessarily a fascistic one? Franco’s Spain didn’t collapse, while it was still very much fascistic.

        All the while, this trait is very much applicable to the Roman, Ottoman, Soviet or US empires.

        • frezik@midwest.social
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          1 month ago

          Historians debate just how fascist Franco was. Hell, Orwell wasn’t even quite sure, and he was very open about the fact that he went to Spain to kill a fascist.

          Edit: a choice passage out of Homage to Catalonia, emphasis added:

          But there were several points that escaped general notice. To begin with, Franco was not strictly comparable with Hitler or Mussolini. His rising was a military mutiny backed up by the aristocracy and the Church, and in the main, especially at the beginning, it was an attempt not so much to impose Fascism as to restore feudalism. This meant that Franco had against him not only the working class but also various sections of the liberal bourgeoisie—the very people who are the supporters of Fascism when it appears in a more modern form. More important than this was the fact that the Spanish working class did not, as we might conceivably do in England, resist Franco in the name of ‘democracy’ and the status quo; their resistance was accompanied by—one might almost say it consisted of—a definite revolutionary outbreak. Land was seized by the peasants; many factories and most of the transport were seized by the trade unions; churches were wrecked and the priests driven out or killed. The Daily Mail, amid the cheers of the Catholic clergy, was able to represent Franco as a patriot delivering his country from hordes of fiendish ‘Reds’.

          And as a side note, the Daily Mail has been terrible for a long, long time.

        • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.world
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          30 days ago

          I would say that Imperialism overlaps Fascism, but (one of the) difference(s) between the two is that Fascism goes a lot harder into Ultranationalism. Under Imperialism you have a King or Queen, and they are ordained by God to rule. Under Ultranationalist Fascism your race (or whatever they count as ‘race’, nation, etc) is what makes you superior to everyone else. It was a lot harder to get people to fight for Kings and Queens they only knew from coins, than to say “we’re fighting those EVIL (other nation people), whereas we are the PURE nation.”

          Another difference is that Fascism adores and requires total war. Imperialism wants to expand, but Fascism wants to dedicate every aspect of the nation towards that goal. There’s that enigmatic ‘other’ that has to be destroyed, because it is both a weak and strong opponent. Fascism also says ‘violence is good for the nation, if directed properly.’ This means your January 6’s, your political assassinations, etc, are all highlighted as good things. ‘Drain the swamp’ kind of rhetoric becomes literal violence to allow people being killed.

          As mentioned below, Franco’s Spain was quite bizarre, in that it had a lot of different traits (including fascist ones).

          Imperialist nations can abandon overseas colonies, ‘let’ them become independent, etc. Yet Fascist nations need invasion and war to keep their economy going, which means they have to pick bigger fights. They also relied on slave labour (and I’m going to take this opportunity to name and shame the corporations that used those people as slave labour:

          Among the slave laborers in the occupied territories, hundreds of thousands were used by leading German corporations including Thyssen, Krupp, IG Farben, Bosch, Blaupunkt, Daimler-Benz, Demag, Henschel, Junkers, Messerschmitt, Siemens, and Volkswagen, as well as the Dutch corporation Philips.

          What people forget about Germany is that they had always planned to invade the Soviet Union. There’s a lot of talk about ‘if they hadn’t,’ but their lebensraum plan required it. In 1944 75% of their economy went to the military. They’d been deficit spending every year since the early/mid 30’s. Fascism requires that all effort be put towards the military and war, regardless of if you’re at war, but you need to be at war to get the land/money/etc you need to pay for the military that you made to… etc.

          So anyway yes, fascist nations bully countries until either a bunch of them or one big one puts them back down.

    • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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      1 month ago

      I won’t say Finland or Thailand were great powers but Japan had a decent showing so it’s not like they were alone

      Though it really only took USSR to beat Germany

      • Cypher@lemmy.world
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        30 days ago

        The USSR was only in the fight thanks to lend lease and even Stalin admitted as much.

        • 1SimpleTailor@startrek.website
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          30 days ago

          Bingo. American industry, British intelligence, and Russian Blood won the war in Europe. It was always a combined effort, and anyone claiming one power could have won alone is talking nonsense.

          With American supplies, the USSR might have been able to defeat Germany without the Allies sending ground forces into Europe. However, there’s no way the Red Army could have defeated both Germany and Japan alone. The United States was the major force in the Pacific theater.

  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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    30 days ago

    And that is why Nazis are the biggest losers in History.

    Not only did they claim their army was the best, but their people were also the best. So losing after a single war proves their army wasn’t the strongest and their people weren’t the best.

    They also got beaten by a combination of different countries who allow anyone to join.

    Meaning, the Nazis were beaten by diversity and inclusivity.

    • ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net
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      30 days ago

      The Confederates, for the non-Americans, take challenge to that title of Biggest Losers.

      They were the opposing force during the American Civil War, trying to keep slavery. Their reign was so short, even a can of beans last longer than they did.

      And yet that doesn’t stop chucklefucks in the American South proudly showing their Confederate flag, all because America is too chicken shit to call them losers.

      Then again, of a person supports Confederacy, they are also supporters of Nazi shit.

  • beliquititious@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    30 days ago

    To be fair it was the strongest aryan army at the time. Unfortunately for them, the other armies weren’t so concerned about everyone looking the same and had the advantage perspectives from many people from many walks of life gives to find novel ways to rain death on their enemies.

    Shame Hitler had to be an asshat. Could you imagine what a charismatic man like him could do if he used his gift for good? We could live in a world where Germany led a global movement of empathy and understanding that brought on the longest period of lasting peace in earth’s history? Instead he was so butt hurt that jewish people existed he did the opposite. I could be writing this post on the lunar settlement instead of the fourth Reich.

    • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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      30 days ago

      Nah, Hitler wasn’t really that special. If anything he was a symptom of deeper problems in Germany at the time. If he hadn’t risen to power someone else would have. And they would’ve been a racist shit head too, because that’s how fascist movements work.

      • beliquititious@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        30 days ago

        I understand what you’re saying and the man himself wasn’t directly controlling every aspect of his rise to power. But I think it’s a disservice to history and to our present circumstances to deny that it actually does take a certain kind of charismatic sociopath/narcissist to lead a movement like the Nazis or their cover band.

        If anyone could do it, it would happen much more often than it does. Hitler (and Trump) is a case of the “right” person, being in the “right” place, at the “right” time.

        Maybe I’m too much of an idealist but I just wish for once, just once, someone comes along with a message of unity and mutual understanding and people actually listen.