- cross-posted to:
- soccer@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- soccer@lemmit.online
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Not to prove anymore
Disagree, Messi is GOATy, but he isn’t the most influential player in the history of football. That is because there wasn’t a way of playing in that role prior to Messi and post Messi. Maradona did set the same precedent for the small attackers many years before.
R9 is more influential than Messi for example. There was a prior to R9 era where strikers played in one manner. And after R9 era where strikers played differently.
Ibra for example is more influential for the tall/big striker position than Messi for his position. Before Ibra the big CF were asked to keep the ball, fight the defenders and be good at the box. After Ibra, these strikers are asked to do way more, drop deep, progress the ball, set the tempo, be more technically able and so on. Haaland is asked to hold himself to a higher standard because of standards Ibra set to that category for example.
Baresi is also more influential for the CB position, considering his height.
The use of the word “INFLUENTIAL” is used in a wrong manner.
In conclusion, Cheers Geoff
why is this so downvoted? He’s the goat but absolutely not the most influential, they’re two completely different things.
It’s hard to define what “influential” means in this context. I kind of agree that Messi didn’t do anything not seen before, he just did a lot of already existing things, better than anyone and at an incredible speed, during 10+ years.
That said, one could argue that Messi was very influential in their rivals. All their rival coaches spent Messi’s career trying to figure out how to stop him and there was a lot of evolution in tactics around that, with some like Simeone and Mourinho basically building their whole tactics around the premise of stopping Messi first, then everything else.
About your first paragraph, i 100% agree. I think he was extremely influential towards coaches on how to defend him. Even IF, i think that we have seen similar patterns before with Maradona or R9. Something that you mentioned.
But, THE MOST ONE?! Hard pass for me genuinely.
Nuh uh messi better
sadly for most r/soccer users all logic is lost when messi is mentioned
it’s crazy how every time a coach or figure praises him or ronaldo you have fanboys in the comment trying to downvote everyone into oblivion who make a good argument/case
Yeah clearly you guys are in the intelligent group of this sub. Don’t look down on us too hard big brains.
First of all, not talking with absolutes makes you more big brain.
Dude, saying this as someone who loves him and think that he rightfully deserved the Golden Ball. But this statment is absolute bonkers. In every way you look at this, he wasn’t THE MOST influential player.
Cheers Geoff!
Influential how ? Convince people to try and ply like Messi ? No one can
How many coaches do you think spent days upon days coming up with different schemes to stop that man? How many coaches said they “know how to stop Messi” ?He’s influence is in the way teams had to adjust to his skill set.
Go watch any star from 2008 downwards , if they got doubled teamed on defense then a commantor would mention it. By the time Messi peaked no one would mention Messi is getting triple teamed ,four players jailed, it just became the standard.
Go ask watch Jose Mourinho how he used to prepare for Messi. That’s actual influence right there…
Good point.
There is no one else with his skill set though.
Whats SM24? 😆
It’s a game produced by BunDesliga. BDSM24 for short
I actually play that game. Its FM but free.
Saudi manager 24
Must be so easy being a sports journalist, just ask everyone about Messi/Ronaldo all the time, and get easy clicks.
I was just asking myself how these posts still make it to the top of this sub each time. Does anyone still find it interesting who people think is better of the two?
Disculpame si te rompí la cola, así es el periodismo champagne
Genuinely insane this shite is allowed on r/soccer considering what gets removed
That’s also a method for getting upvotes here - find a news story where they asked some schmuck about who the GOAT is, post it here and get like 3K upvotes guaranteed.
Every nonsensical Pep quote gets like 2k upvotes. On the most recent one, nearly all the comments were “Why is this upvoted? So tired of hearing from him”
There’s a load of casuals who just want to read the same crap again and again and again, they don’t necessarily comment but they do upvote.
Can’t wait to exchange all my upvotes for cash one day.
You missed out on the opportunity to really sell your account when they got rid of awards.
I used to work for a sports media page and half of my job was just refreshing this subreddit to source quotes about Messi and Ronaldo to post on Twitter/Instagram. Was always the top-performing content by a mile.
used to work for a sports newspaper and same.
Lmao, idek if youre baiting or if its actually true
I fucking knew it
it’s hardly a secret at this point with how many articles reference reddit and twitter comments
I even got £50 for a photo of mine the Daily Mail stole off Reddit
Was it paid out automatically or did you have to hound them for it?
The latter, they didn’t ask me for permission, just stole it
You’re internet royalty mate.
Hey guys I know a lawyer let’s band together to file a class action and get back our hard-earned pay!
100% sportsbible
They got relatively huge from reposting this subreddit
He’s decent this Messi lad, but he’s not exactly Bill McCracken is he?
I’ve finally downvoted the gaffa, what a cold cold day it is
If no one has done what Messi has done then has he influenced the game at all?
Ever seen how during a direct free kick, one player lays down right at the back of the feet of the player wall?
Guess who forced that…
Same as why The Beatles is considered one of the most influential bands despite no one sounds like them nowadays
Tame Impala would like a word.
The Kinks, Beach Boys, Zombies, The Who, and I could go on.
If you’re saying no one sounds like a band from the 60s in the 2020s then yeah that’s true lol.
The Kinks, Beach Boys, Zombies, The Who, and I could go on.
None of those bands really sound like The Beatles beyond a couple of songs maybe. They all have that 60s sound though so maybe that’s what you’re referring to.
I was gonna say this, Messi is the best to ever play the game but Beckham was WAY more influential or other players have inspired kids more to be / play like them. Messi is almost uncopyable (if that even is a word).
No other player can walk around 80 minutes of the game and still have the most goals/assists/dribbles.
that’s true I give a good example when cr was at Manu I started watching him I was able to do his tricks yeah I know I’m nobody but I was still doing his tricks when I saw Messi I immediately thought of an amazing player with huge skills that can’t be copied you just keep watching him you can’t copy his talent not possible that’s the main reason why some players choose hard work over talent particularly if you are a striker you usually go for ronaldo but overall you have good skilled players like ronaldo brazil ronaldo zidane cryuff Ronaldinho etc but there are 3 big names above them MARADONA MESSI PELE it’s even crime to compare messi to c ronaldo.
everyone was expecting Messi to win the world cup why? to be the best well he did but no one was expecting Ronaldo to win the world cup why?
messi’s critics were always the same he didn’t the world cup so he isn’t a good player I never seen such a comment for ronaldo why Messi had to win the world cup over the years? cause Maradona won it? Messi always had this burden of success of Maradona once Messi won the world cup people started doubting the value of world cup and putting CL ahead of WC lol that can’t be serious
you know who won the world cup in 2006 but you don’t know the winner of CL in 2006 so easy
Deep
Not all that deep though, You don’t need to create carbon copies of yourselves to revolutionize the game.
Messi has pushed the boundaries of how impactful a player can strive to be.
You genuinely think elite trainers all around the world have not studied every strength and style of Messi to train the future generation of dribble greats ?
You alright mate?
damn.
Real eyes realize real lies
I never looked at it that way be4
That’s what I was gonna say.
How has Messi been influential to the game when nobody can replicate the way he plays? Influential players are ones who start doing something new that everybody starts copying.
If most forwards strolled around the pitch like Messi for 80 of the 90 minutes they’d contribute absolutely nothing to the game. Messi hasn’t influenced anyone to change the way they play because it wouldn’t work if they did.
I take it as “most influential single player on outcomes/dominance of teams”. He is the player that can single handedly exert the most influence on a game. Certainly true in the modern era and if you consider his longevity it’s hard to argue against the same for all time.
I always thought the same thing, but then again there are different ways to be influential.
I think it could be said he got more people into football - they wanted to learn to dribble, or score, or pass, or make plays like Messi. It doesn’t mean they would do it the same way or to the same level, but it made people strive.
Also, in this day and age of football Adonisis, he shows that you can be a super start without the body of a god or oozing charisma or attitude.
exactly, compare Messi’s brilliance to that of Cruyff or Beckenbauer who changed the way the game is played with new tactics and positions
This calls for Cruijff’s explanation of the Diamond in a Dutch talkshow.
I wonder which player in history has made the highest number of people actually change the way they play.
Ronaldo making everyone kick through the valve?
Roberto Carlos convincing a generation of full backs to stop defending?
Vinnie Jones making droves of sunday league players think “midfield hardman” is a legit position?
What about Pele and inspiring joga bonito?
fraud confirmed
I’m not disagreeing with him but have we seen anyone with the domination and longevity of CR7? Nope. During their golden years they were scoring an incredible amount of goals every season, not seen in history
Messi and CR7 are the best, but Cruijff is the greatest. He’s one of the best and for sure the most influential.
Surprised the headline isn’t ‘Arteta SLAMS Ronald as uninfluential’
Best player - Messi Most influential - Cruyff
Best player: Pelé, Most influential: Pelé
Messi challenged his throne, and that’s legendary by itself
Pele is undoubtedly one of the greatest but he’s more of a pioneer because he did everything before anyone else, but for me, Messi edges it. As for influence, Cruyff literally changed the way football is played, so I think it’s fair to call him the most influential.
We can’t compare players due to era differences, but we can compare careers - Imagine watching Messi get his third World Cup title now instead of his first. That’s why Pelé will edge it for me until someone has a career like Messi’s and Pelé’s club career coupled with total dominance at the national team level too.
Unpopular opinion, but I don’t think he influenced much. Mostly because no one else can do what he did or can do. He’s extremely unique. His play influenced other false 9s for a very short time until they all failed and moved on. His play as a RW isn’t even attempted to be replicated. No one plays that position the way he does. New Messis pop up if they can dribble and are short. Until they turn 18 and it’s apparent they are too far off track.
The obvious next big name is Ronaldo who I actually think was influential and the most influential player of the last 20 years. Wingers before Ronaldo were cross merchants. Like Giggs. Like Figo. Like Beckham. Then Ronaldo changed how wingers got involved and they were expected to score as well. Now wingers leave the crossing to the full backs.
But no one more influential than Cruyff.
Wingers before Ronaldo were cross merchants.
Motherfucking George Best crossing his way to 181 goals in 474 appearances at United.
George Best is another outlier bro
Figo a cross merchant?! What?!
Yea that’s probably wrong on my part.
Rather wingers were more focused on assists. Figo was the assist leader in La Liga before Messi for example. But he also never scored more than 10 league goals in a season. And won his Balon on a season he scored 11 total goals.
The crossing part of wingers was very prevalent in PL because of the 4-4-2 formation of them being wide midfielders like todays wingabcks. That is true.
The situation with mosern wingers and old school wingers wasn’t Ronaldo. Sir Ferguson wanted to play Ronaldo closer to goal because of certain attributes that he could offer more than a traditional winger. He was morphed like that from 2006/07 season. For 3 years he was more than a traditional winger. Stereotypically traditional. At that point he was used more like a SS with more freedom.
We did see a similar thing with Henry at Arsenal just as a reminder. Usually that happens with pacy players who are tucked in more when they get tactically ready and get better and better.
Don’t think that’s too uncontroversial - isn’t one of his nicknames “the alien”? It’s not that he does anything particularly unique - he just has incomparably exceptional close control, decision-making & execution. And has done for 20 years, at one of the best club sides ever allowing him to rack up insane numbers and records when he was developing and at his peak. If anything the argument would be that Guardiola is more influential from that Barca team considering his impact on German & English football and tactically how the game has had to change to adopt & counter ideas he’s introduced.
Based
Pelé is the most influential, then Cruyff.
No matter what your favorite player does, Pelé did it first: https://youtu.be/vSpofyhs0P8?si=alNg7YqEo3il-mtq
“In the 1970s, I was a teenager in a country (Germany) that loved football – and in that country, there was no argument about who was the best player of all time. There was no contestation, no hierarchy, although there were many good players at the time. Franz Beckenbauer and Johan Cruyff were out of the ordinary. But even they never thought they could be the No. 1 player in the world. It was a time when the Ballon d’Or was reserved for players in Europe, so there was a very clear hierarchy: there were the very good ones, and there was the superstar. This is something we no longer have when discussing who is the best among several great players. None have the impact that Pelé had at the time.”
I think most everyone is misinterpreting how he’s using the word. Messi is among those that can single handedly dictate a game the most, AKA he is outsized influence on outcomes of games. Considering there are 11 players in each team he is the most influential.
Messi is maybe the best player of all time, but not Top 10 in influence, not even in his own generation
South African politicians lined up to take pics with Messi when came to South Africa, dude has 2 of the top 3 instagram post of all time and has the second instagram followers without an extremely active poster. Did you see what happened when he moved to the MLS.
yeah and the next superstar in the social media era will have similar posts.
Besides we are talking about influence in football, not social media influenceBesides we are talking about influence in football, not social media influence
If you are talking about influence only in football then there’s no way he is not even top 10 in influence.
He’s done very little to influence the actual game of football though, because the way he plays is not replicable.
Nobody has changed how they play the game because of Messi.