I strongly disagree with the claim that voting third party or not voting is “the same as voting for Trump.” By that logic, it’s also the same as voting for Harris. It’s complete and total nonsense.
The fact that this question is taking place within the medium of electoralism does not fundamentally change what the question is, asking me to vote for a genocidaire is no different than asking me to commit genocide with my own hands. There have been countless times in history where someone said that it was ok to do genocide for the sake of some kind of greater good, or protecting some other group of people or whatever else. Every one of those times, we look back and say that they were wrong. There has never once in history where committing genocide has been the morally correct choice, nor has there ever been a group of people that we can look back and say, “If only they were less reluctant to engage in genocide, everything would’ve turned out better.”
If I go down as one of the people who was too reluctant to use genocide in order to advance their own interests, I’m not going to be particularly bothered by that.
I don’t have the power to fix every problem in the world. What I do have the power to do is to ensure that I do not become a problem that needs to be fixed, myself.
I genuinely can’t comprehend your perspective at all. You said you were “baffled” that people didn’t agree with your position, when your position is that supporting genocide is not merely morally permissible, but morally obligatory. I struggle to even imagine a contrived hypothetical scenario where that would be a defensible position, much less one where it would be obvious that genocide is morally obligatory. It’s absurd.
If you have a major in philosophy, then surely you’re aware that there are plenty of moral systems that argue against pulling the lever in the trolley problem, and the many critiques of it that exist. Surely you couldn’t have spent years studying philosophy and walked away with the conclusion, “Act Utilitarianism is obviously objectively correct, and anyone who disagrees must be too stupid to understand it.”
The thing is; those moral systems and critiques of the problem are all ideological.
You are making me seriously reconsider my impression of Finland’s educational system.
Every hotshot freshman walks into Philosophy 101 thinking that everybody else’s ideas are “ideological” while theirs are just “common sense” (nevermind that they all believe different things). If the professor does their job properly, and the students aren’t completely obstinate, then they will leave Philosophy 101 understanding that this is not a valid way of understanding anything.
Anyone who claims that everyone else is operating based on ideology and they are not, is simply unaware of their own ideology. And being unaware of it, that ideology has a far greater hold on them than it otherwise might.
The Trolley Problem isn’t even meant to have a definite answer. The thought experiment was developed for the explicit purpose of demonstrating how people’s moral intuitions differ, as do different schools of moral philosophy. To think, “Pulling the level is obviously objectively correct, and this is a non-ideological claim” is completely and utterly absurd and demonstrates total ignorance of moral philosophy.
What do you think the point of philosophy even is if all it’s theories can be dismissed as “ideological” and your own personal “common sense” is a reliable way of determining truth?
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I strongly disagree with the claim that voting third party or not voting is “the same as voting for Trump.” By that logic, it’s also the same as voting for Harris. It’s complete and total nonsense.
The fact that this question is taking place within the medium of electoralism does not fundamentally change what the question is, asking me to vote for a genocidaire is no different than asking me to commit genocide with my own hands. There have been countless times in history where someone said that it was ok to do genocide for the sake of some kind of greater good, or protecting some other group of people or whatever else. Every one of those times, we look back and say that they were wrong. There has never once in history where committing genocide has been the morally correct choice, nor has there ever been a group of people that we can look back and say, “If only they were less reluctant to engage in genocide, everything would’ve turned out better.”
If I go down as one of the people who was too reluctant to use genocide in order to advance their own interests, I’m not going to be particularly bothered by that.
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I don’t have the power to fix every problem in the world. What I do have the power to do is to ensure that I do not become a problem that needs to be fixed, myself.
I genuinely can’t comprehend your perspective at all. You said you were “baffled” that people didn’t agree with your position, when your position is that supporting genocide is not merely morally permissible, but morally obligatory. I struggle to even imagine a contrived hypothetical scenario where that would be a defensible position, much less one where it would be obvious that genocide is morally obligatory. It’s absurd.
Maybe take a philosophy class sometime.
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If you have a major in philosophy, then surely you’re aware that there are plenty of moral systems that argue against pulling the lever in the trolley problem, and the many critiques of it that exist. Surely you couldn’t have spent years studying philosophy and walked away with the conclusion, “Act Utilitarianism is obviously objectively correct, and anyone who disagrees must be too stupid to understand it.”
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You are making me seriously reconsider my impression of Finland’s educational system.
Every hotshot freshman walks into Philosophy 101 thinking that everybody else’s ideas are “ideological” while theirs are just “common sense” (nevermind that they all believe different things). If the professor does their job properly, and the students aren’t completely obstinate, then they will leave Philosophy 101 understanding that this is not a valid way of understanding anything.
Anyone who claims that everyone else is operating based on ideology and they are not, is simply unaware of their own ideology. And being unaware of it, that ideology has a far greater hold on them than it otherwise might.
The Trolley Problem isn’t even meant to have a definite answer. The thought experiment was developed for the explicit purpose of demonstrating how people’s moral intuitions differ, as do different schools of moral philosophy. To think, “Pulling the level is obviously objectively correct, and this is a non-ideological claim” is completely and utterly absurd and demonstrates total ignorance of moral philosophy.
What do you think the point of philosophy even is if all it’s theories can be dismissed as “ideological” and your own personal “common sense” is a reliable way of determining truth?
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