If you’re anything like me, you’re constantly upgrading your gear and spending several stacks of thousands of dollars…

But what if our picture of endgame doesn’t exist? In other words, we are chasing a certain quality that doesn’t exist?

  • dkernighan@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    The “chase” you are referring to is a result of human nature. We always want what we don’t have and they say variety is the spice of life. You could be given your dream setup and after 6 months you would wanna try something new. To me there is no endgame … it’s all about enjoying the gear/sound you currently have, enjoying the music, and looking forward to new gear just for the enjoyment. It’s about the journey, the music, and the memories.

    • Vurpsmurfen@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Yeah I like this approach much more. It’s about discovering different flavors of sound. This idea of ultimate fidelity where everything is 100% transparent and nothing but the sound of the source is coming through is a logical goal to have but it’s not as realistic as people believe.

  • Woofy98102@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    The short answer is yes. It’s very easy to get caught up in the pursuit of better gear. It’s one of the reasons that more and more online reviewers are literally telling people to find gear with sound that makes you happy. For me, it’s a warm yet detailed sound capable of exposing gobs of detail that makes me want to listen to music all day and night long and yet still manages to be able to make even the worst recordings still listenable. Whether it’s playing on my vintage Beogram 4002 or my Denafrips Hermes/Pontus II digital combo or the Technics SL-1200 Mk 7/Grado Sonata 3 combo that will be filling in for the Beogram 4002 while it gets a multi-year restoration that starts this winter once I recover from this Wednesday’s hand surgery.

  • WildBoarsOfCanada@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Depends what level your system is at IMO. The reality is, the returns are diminishing, but also very real and noticeable as you go up. Unless you’re already at some bonkers expensive highly dialed system, there are still noticeably higher levels to this and you will absolutely hear the difference as you move up.

    Obviously it doesn’t all come down to dollar value, but speaking in generalizations - no, a few thousand dollars of gear is not endgame. You may not reach “perfection” but there are still more levels to have your mind blown.

    I’m sure this will get downvoted, but I find Reddit in general to usually have a non-ambitious perspective as in there is rampant defending of low $ things across all hobby subreddits, and a general disdain towards people who spend more $ on things that may have very small impact.

    • Sel2g5@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Remember your first pair of good speakers? You’re mind was blown right? 1000 usd can he endgame to certain people. Hell 1000 is better than 99.5% of systems out there.

      I have more or less a 10k 2 channel system. Most purchased second hand at a much reduced cost. At this point to have something better would be thousands more. It’s not worth it to me. I like good sound and flavors. Some magnepan lrs would be amazing to try them out. Are they a downgrade to my va beethoven baby grands? Probably, but I’d like to try them.

      • dishinpies@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        This is about where I feel I’m at with my current setup. I got everything at a sharply reduced cost, so to meaningfully upgrade anything would meaning spending at least 50% (or more) of the cost of the entire system. That’s basically endgame, in my eyes.

    • IcyPresentation4379@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I think about this a lot, and in my opinion it’s less about a non-ambitious perspective" and more that the mechanism of reddit skews closer to social media than discussion forums like Audiogon and the Hoffman boards. There’s a stronger impulse to seek validation around here than there is on other discussion boards, so you get a lot of people who want to look like experts who justify their gear using whatever methods they can instead of just enjoying what they have. Combined with the generally younger demographics reddit attracts, and this is the result. A bunch of people who hold strong opinions based on what will get them the most validation, not on anything that they actually agree with or enjoy. Then someone comes along with a budget they can’t compete with who just shares what they have, and people get downvoted or told that they bought snakeoil products and should just get a Topping stack and some Genelecs instead.

    • imsoggy@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      “Reddit…non ambitious perspective…”

      You one of those that think high-end amps or dacs or power supplies make a damn bit of difference? Get him boys! /s

  • calmlikeasexbobomb@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Sounds like you need to figure out what you’re chasing.

    Maybe spend more time seeking out listening experiences - concerts, hi-fi shops, other people’s setups, etc. or do more critical listening of what you have, then evaluate what’s “missing” and go from there.

    You could also experiment with you already have - speaker placement, room treatment, room correction, etc. You might have what you’re seeking already, it’s just waiting to be setup properly.

    • Destructtor0@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I really like this answer. Personally, I knew what I like and didn’t like after, well, decades of different budget gear. I knew what I wanted it to sound like (solid bass with no subs, very dynamic, wide soundstage and speakers that disappear when I close my eyes), and I knew what I liked the look of and what I didn’t like the look of (give me big blue VU meters and turntable that looks like the finish on a PRS guitar) and after going to audio shows and swapping out budget gear (every speaker I owned I was given as they were going to be thrown out or found for free up until 2 years ago), I was finally ready for true audiophile gear. I auditioned gear everywhere I could. Once I found what I was looking for, and negotiated to a point where I was happy, I got it all setup and now I enjoy my music more than ever. I also have it hooked up to my tv and got rid of the 5.1 and just listen to the 2.0 system now. I’m incredibly happy and content with the setup I have and while I wonder what a different streamer or DAC might sound like, I’ve reached my endgame where it makes me smile every time I turn it on.

      I have playlists of music that, if I’m honest, I’m listening to my system more than the song itself. I put em on every once in a while and it never fails to impress.

      Trying to spend money on experiences rather than things, and to me, this counts as an experience I can repeat daily

  • PetroleumVNasby@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    To me, “endgame” is defined by the room, not the system. But if your living situation is still fluid, such as you live in an apartment but are ambitious of having more space one day, you probably haven’t hit it yet.

    My house is only so big. I’d love to have a pair of Stella Utopia Evos in it, but they would take over the room. Once you have speakers sized for your musical tastes that work in the room you have, you have an endpoint. Your components will follow. You can refine things from there, but you will hit diminishing returns quickly. Changes in technology will require some additional tweaking. Who knew we were going to stream so much 20 years ago?

    My biggest change has been to my vinyl front end and that has been very satisfying. I anticipate changes to my digital front end as well as my amplification. Then I will probably do one more major speaker upgrade. I will probably be done at that point.

  • lemonsodahair@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    I think you’re right in the sense that “endgame” as a concept doesn’t really last long in hobbies. I chased a NAC282/NAP250DR/NDX2 for years and when I got it, I felt it for a few weeks and then my ears adapted and it became easier to think I was lacking something again. When I’m reminded of how good it is, it is stark and I remember that it is the shit, but most of the time it just is what it is now and I have grown accustomed to the sound.

    On the other hand, it’s truly endgame for me because I just can’t stomach the next tier of prices and honestly probably couldn’t afford them anyway, so I guess I’ve sort of found my nirvana. When I do reflect on it, it’s a very happy place to be and I enjoy my hifi a lot. In that sense, having a strictly enforced endgame can be pretty nice, you’re not chasing some mystical sound that is constantly shifting goalposts.

    • audioen@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Yeah. Ultimately, when you have almost completely flat response, no harmonic distortion, accurate group delay, and small enough room reverb time, you’ve basically achieved sound perfection.

      A sound system like that ultimately doesn’t sound like anything. It just sounds like whatever you play back on it, rendering it accurately. It is time to stop and just focus on the music at that point.

      In principle you can hear everything that is going on in the music at that point. There is nothing left to discover other than what you already hear.

  • Audioaficianado@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    You’ll know when you’ve reached your endgame system when changes sound different but not necessarily better.

  • RitalinKidd@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    I’ve often pondered the concept of sound and our interpretation of it. The act of our ears processing sound waves into electrical impulses leaves so many variables (a rabbit hole I go down occasionally) that what sounds good to us may be purely speculation and based on mood, setup, settings, speaker placement, acoustics. I used to think a certain set of speakers would be my ultimate setup because they took me back to a moment in time. But there are so many variables, we could be chasing something that we’ll never catch. But I enjoy finding old gear, trying it out and seeing what works for the moment or location.

  • djentbat@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Eventually you realize you have the best of what you’re currently into. Warm headphones and soundstage have always been my thing, but recently I’ve come to value imaging more because of how holographic a soundscape can be at times. I’ve come to learn that, that comes at the cost of the warm signature/bass typically. (ZMF atrium stock pad vs caldera superferoated proved this to me).

    The answer is probably yes, but also everyone has a preference and not one size fits all

  • Sea-Neck206@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Some people are. I did for some time but realised pretty quickly that it would probably be a never ending process. Having finite resources helps, meaning you can’t buy x speakers or y amplifier.

    At the end of the day, it’s about enjoying music (for me). I have a hifi that makes listening very enjoyable, so I’m content with what I have, but am well aware that there is probably better audio out there. I don’t have the money to find out though. My system took a few years to get to it’s current iteration and took several rounds of buy amp and speakers, then upgrade. That gets old quick especially if you’re in a situation that makes resel difficult (as I am when it comes to large things like speakers).

    It’s funny because I am a bit of a shopaholic, but I guess I’ve come to the conclusion that there will always be something else to try, so why bother if you’ e got a good system? I recently checked out some new products like the Eversolo streamers and Kef R3 Meta etc, simply out of boredom and wanting to watch something different on youtube. I quickly realised this is a bad idea lol. It’s fun for a brief period to watch the latest hifi show in Munich or wherever, but gets old quickly.

  • audioen@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Audio hardware is not convenient at all. It is expensive, heavy, takes up space, and the more there is of it, the more likely something breaks or is not working correctly and damages the playback quality in some way that may be difficult to notice. It is also virtually impossible to guarantee that any change you make to the system will actually improve it, as that requires understanding where your most important problem point is and fixing that, rather than randomly changing some piece of equipment for another and hoping that it improves anything.

    I find the inconveniences associated with equipment to be considerable, and so my tendency is to minimize it and stick to some known-good configuration that is vouched for by a reputable manufacturer, such as any active speaker that is a singular integrated box. For added peace of mind, you can just go ahead and measure the performance to observe that it delivers what is promised, so you know that not only did manufacturer promise a certain level of performance, what is actually delivered in your room by your total system is pretty much exactly what they said it would be.

    This does not 100% eliminate the desire to “upgrade” your stuff, but a measurement/data-minded approach should focus your attention more towards where there might be actual problems. For instance, based on measurement, you may realize that your listening room is severely damaging the flatness of the audio spectrum in your listening seat, and that your room’s reverb time is excessive, and so you start to look into ways to add diffusion and absorption in the room, which are then genuine upgrades to your playback experience that don’t even involve changing anything in your audio hardware. You can also tell, in the end, if your realized in-room response is not appropriate, and you can fix it by simply equalizing it where there are problems, fix bass boominess issues, and even impart deliberate tonality changes such as some 5 dB extra bass below 100 Hz to make it sound warmer and nicer.