- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmit.online
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmit.online
- linux@lemmy.ml
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Serious question: is there any good reason to not include XWayland along with Wayland itself, as a compatibility layer for X.org apps (which are still plenty)?
No, which is why they’re going to be including XWayland as a compatibility layer for X11 apps
Good. Let it retire. It served for decades but this step must to be done
I hope this means wayland will be given more love by rhel, fedora and their partners. And itll force nvidias hand more and more to make wayland ready for the desktop as desktop focused distros like ubuntu follow suit
Good. Let it die. It served it’s purpose.
2025 - the year of the wayland desktop
Looks like this is it, the final nail. Just keep in mind RHEL10 will be coming out in 2025
When is systemd-wayland? ^^
How much of an effect is this realistically going to have on most RHEL users?
But red hat is not popular in the Linux gaming. So one cares what they do.
De facto, Linux is owned by Red Hat, as they write almost all of its components. So, this decision means that the days of Xorg are numbered.
It really is not. Not the kernel, not most major distros, and not DE’s.
Red Hat’s contribution amounts to 10% of all changes in the kernel, which is five times more than SUSE, making it the largest contributor among distribution owners. Additionally, while their distribution may not be the most well-known, it generates their highest revenue, bringing in at least $1.5 billion in profit annually. This financial success greatly enhances their influence in the Linux community.
Man the Phoronix forums, always some deluded guy arguing against Wayland. But only time will tell, no manner how many developers jump ship from X.org to maintain (X)Wayland…
I mean there are a lot of issues. I’m on amd. Most issues I have are all Gnome related.
No Discord push to talk
Remmina multi monitor doesn’t work
Vmware key tunneling doesn’t work
Can’t drag and drop from the archive tool
Lots of annoyances. The push to talk for me is a deal breaker, I hate open micers.
I hate open micers.
Being frank that’s a big deal to A LOT of gamers and would prohibit adoption big time.
Discord PTT I can at least confirm works fine on Wayland + KDE. There’s a legacy app hotkeys option that lets it work in every game I play so far, native or WINE.
Also no problems dragging and dropping from Ark to Dolphin.
Tearing can be enabled in the display settings menus now too.
Can you explain by what you mean with legacy app hotkeys option?
As I understand it, in X, all programs are allowed to see all keyboard inputs all the time. Wayland doesn’t allow that, and only the DE itself and the current application gets the input, or something like that. I think this is an intentional thing for added security but I’m not entirely sure. Anyway, KDE has a setting to allow “legacy” programs to see all keyboard inputs again, and this lets Discord work as expected when playing games and such.
I think tearing still needs a few extra pieces in the graphics stack to land before that setting actually works.
On Nvidia maybe, it should work on AMD though.
honestly question, do people use application-level push-to-talk often on Linux as opposed to binding a
pactlcommand or similar?You are right with Wayland having issues, but that’s not the point (I am making). I am pointing out the direction the developing for Linux Windowing system is going towards (cannot get things without the developers).
Wayland is not perfect and no one will dispute that (only extreme people and idiots), because nothing is absolute. Wayland is old (news) at this point and still has active development (which the only thing matters for the wheel to move forward).
thing is, forcing adoption before the time is right is going to reduce linux adoption. We finally have some momentum going, forcing wayland onto desktop users and having it be a terrible experience is just going to kill it
On the other hand, forcing adoption too late is going to delay Wayland, and it’s not like Xorg is ever getting HDR.
Pushing it for 2025 seems about right to me; that’s still two years of dev left, and two years can go fast if there’s real impetus to improve things.
Sometimes that’s the only way to get the software around it to work. Many folks won’t fix things until they stop working, rather than when they know things are going to stop working. I know that it sucks, but that’s just the way it goes sometimes. Linux (as an ecosystem) where you can just mandate someting from on high and force you employees to do it. That’s why everything is so disjointed.
I am also on AMD using Gnome with a Wayland session and push to talk works for me if I have Discord not minimized and on the same virtual desktop as the game I am playing. Might work for you as well. It’s still dumb that it doesn’t work when minimized of course, but a possible workaround is better than nothing.
Finally! I hope it’s the necessary kick to get Wayland and compositors developers to fix the remaining problems by then and for application developers to port their applications to native Wayland.
I’m not 100% confident since Wayland has been incredibly slow moving at fixing major issues in the past, but I want to believe.
Oh no. NVidia doesn’t fully support gaming. I hope they fix the out of order rendering issue.
The out of order rendering issue doesn’t affect gaming because it only happens in widowed mode. When you’re fullscreen, direct scanout kicks in (if you have it enabled in the config file) and there are no glitches
I saw it only on games.
I run them (full screen) via Lutris. I think I need to check direct scanout. How do I enable it?
They’re getting there… Most of the discussion I’m seeing on pull requests is small things now. Apparently some got improvement already by patching xwayland n’ stuff with the WIP patches, but it still requires compositor and driver side changes to be fully fixed.
Will this kill off desktop environments without the resources to make the switch?
no, because they can probably use xwayland rootful mode. The real problem will be as applications (or their dependent libraries) start dropping x11 support. That’s probably still a bit away though.
They can still use (and improve) wlroots… The idea that every DE needs to create its own Wayland server is non-sense… GNOME and KDE implementing it themselves makes a bit more sense given they’re the biggest ones…
And because GNOME and KDE do wayland implementation before wlroots
r/bspwm will probably die. Such a shame, I love this window manager so much
hyprland takes a lot of ideas from bspwm
FVWM didn’t have plans to do something similar for/on Wayland, a couple of years ago, at least.
I don’t think there ever will be a bspwm on Wayland, this issue about moving to Wayland has been stuck for almost 10 years now. I doubt the dev is going to move to Wayland anytime soon at this point. I guess I’ll just move to another WM once I buy an AMD card.
This seems to be the only way some corporation with over 80% dGPU market share understands. Otherwise we may need to wait 10 more years. I wished nvk and nouveau were already good enough, So that we didn’t have to wait that long in the first place.
I doubt it will make them understand. Still a glint of hope…
Well no one is working on X any more these days, so they’re going to have to make the switch at some point.