I genuinely want to make one of those 3 hour long video essays about this. Before anyone says anything, yes I very obviously started playing Shadow of War again recently and thought of this. For those unaware, the nemesis system was this incredible system made for Middle-Earth Shadow of Mordor and heavily improved in Shadow of War that allowed NPCs to remember interactions with the player and make decisions that gave some incredible moments. NPCs could be killed by you and then return with new physical features like an axe in the head or a mechanical arm and tell you how made they are at you for killing them. There was an enemy once that took my sword from me and broke it so I had to equip a new one. You can have NPC’s whose names change based on things they do, becoming Ur-Bek the Pit Fighter if they did well in the fighting pits in the game or “The Unashamed” if you shamed them to lower their level but they took it with pride instead. I’m heavily oversimplifying it but it created an incredibly rich world that felt entirely based around you and what you do. I had a guy that I kept killing over and over again and he kept coming back, only for a pivotal moment in the game to occur and he shows up AGAIN to fight me. I’ve had friendly NPCs come out of nowhere to save me from death at the hands of others. A friendly NPC will betray you if you kill his blood-brother. You can accidentally drive enemies insane and they start chittering nonsense or just screaming. Regular enemies can become captains with their own names and titles if they kill you. Just today, I had my favorite captain infiltrate the warchief to betray him when I attacked the fort and, when I attacked, the warchief had him tied up. He said he found out he was a spy and slit his throat before throwing him off the edge of a tower. I loved that orc. His name was Bork. Needless to say I killed the warchief when I got to him as revenge for Bork. But this is what I’m talking about. It’s all unscripted and absolutely amazing. It makes the world feel so rich. You really just have to play the game to experience it. There really is nothing like it out there.
So WB has this amazing system which they patented and was met with massive love and appreciation. And what have they done with it since Shadow of War? Absolutely nothing. We have not seen this incredible system in 6 years. And they’re not letting anyone else use it either. Why? Can you imagine how cool this would be in other IPs they own? Can you imagine a Mad Max game similar to the one they already came out with but with this system in it? Cool weirdos in the post apocalypse that remember you and have these unique designs and stories that are naturally formed around the way you play? I heard rumors they were using it for whatever Wonder Woman game they’re making so hey, if that means we get to see it again, then kudos. But they have to do something with it. Let other companies use it if you won’t. WB as a whole has become a horrible company for both games and movies, with their emphasis on live-service games becoming prevalent. But could you imagine a system like this in a Batman game or if they used it in Suicide Squad Kills the Justice League? I guarantee it would be way more interesting than what they’re doing now. I’ll end my rant here but I just think it’s a tragedy that something so unique and incredible that could only be improved upon has been collecting dust for 6 years now.
You think it’s the greatest game mechanic specifically because of how rare it is. Truth is if it was in every game it wouldn’t be special.
WB copyrighted it specifically for this purpose, they wanted to be able to maintain the value of it so that they could roll it out into games of their choosing. It keeps their LOTR games popular… and also helps them keep rights to them.
They don’t own rights to this IP. So this is something that keeps them relevant.
Nothing goes together quite as well as “WB” and “Squandered Goodwill”
No matter how much I love Shadow of War (and it’s a lot). I can’t imagine risking buying anything from WB after they pulled their tax write-off shenanigans with Final Space.
Great system piss poor game tho. I hate the fact we have so much fucking Tolkien lore about his worlds and we still get whatever the fuck these two games were supposed to be.
I had this one orc who just refused to stay dead. I cut off its head, he comes back with the head sewed back on. I burn him to ashes, he comes back with immunity to fire. Eventually he had like no weaknesses left and just one shotted me. Im gonna be honest, i was always sort of happy to see my nemesis make it back to haunt me.
The only problem I have with it is against strong Uruks it’s basically a cheese fest of trying to do damage without dying.
They could use the same engine to make a DC villain game where you could recruit people into your own suicide squad call it “rouges gallery” where you play a villain recruiting characters have the same sneaking system and combat system that Lotr “borrowed” from Arkham asylum. It writes itself the city would be the star you could switch from Gotham to metropolis so it’s bright and sunny instead of dark and rainy but as you progress the city gets darker and the nights last longer. Have the game start off like saints row 3 with a huge heist but you accidentally kill super man because the safe had kryptonite in it and now metroplolis can be good or bad based on how you play.
Watch Dogs Legion could have heavily benefitted from the nemesis system when recruiting who can become enemies. WB had the attitude of "We’re not going to implement this mechanic again any time soon, and nobody else can either*. A solid game mechanic just left to sit idly on a shelf.
I’ve always wanted a mafia themed game with this system, different families with different soldiers riding through the ranks, getting revenge. Combined with taking over businesses like the godfather game it would be perfect
I mean they literally have already said it will be used for their upcoming Wonder Woman game being made by Monolith?
My ultimate nemesis was an unkillable bastard.
Unless I’m mistaken they’d level up when they came back (or when they killed you?) and this happened enough times that he only had one weakness - he could only be dropped by stealth attacks.
The only way to ensure a nemesis could never come back was to decapitate them. Which is fair, right? I didn’t stick around after he stopped moving, how did I know they’d stitch him back up? But they ain’t stitching his head back on, so dead is dead.
The problem was that either I didn’t know how to do it, or there was simply no way at actually decapitate someone with a stealth attack. Which was the only way he could be beaten.
I musta killed him 50 fucking times.
Oh, if it makes you feel better decapitating them doesn’t actually guarantee that they won’t come back. I had an Olog come back 3 times with his head stitched back onto his body.
I eventually recruited him then he got decapitated during the very first fortress battle I brought him to. I did not have the chance to bring him back from that.
The first recapitated captain I had was also an Olog. I was completely unaware that was even a possibility, I’d thought beheading was done and dusted. Shit actually made me shout(scream) in alarm when the game suddenly yanked my camera and zoomed in on this horrid, stitched up abomination.
Pretty Sure that system is copyrighted. Just like how capcom held the patent on load screen minigames. We had a whole generation of boring ass load-screens so they could let me shoot up and slash the devil may cry logo.
It is, but OP specifically complained about WB (who own the patent) not doing anything with it, so your point is moot.
My point that someone else did it before? Nah that stands. Stands strong too, based on the votes.
Capcom aren’t even the ones who had the loading screen minigame patent. That was Bandai Namco. The comment you’re so proud of isn’t even right, my guy.
I feel patents really should just be banned for non-physical things, sure it allows for innovation and new ideas by limiting people to come up with sometimes better systems, but for the most part, it’s been incredibly harmful for progress, it’s also incredibly greedy.
IMO it’s like if the NBA patented throwing a ball. It doesn’t make sense to me.
Exactly, then add on the fact that baseball, football/rugby and tennis wouldn’t exist specifically because that. I understand patenting new inventions like electronics, vehicles and such, but concepts shouldn’t be available to patent, it only brings harm to the industry.
Whenever I think of this, I’m always reminded about how mini games on loading screens is the coolest and smartest idea ever, and yet it was patented for 20 years by Bandai Namco so no one else could do it. WHICH IS LAME.
There was also the stuff with the Crazy Taxi patent, I WAS pretty sure it was for the arrow guide telling the player where they need to go, but reading the patent, I might be thinking of some other game entirely. Though that being patented did end up giving us GTA’s gps system, which is better imo.
Regardless, it’s just annoying when they pull this crap. I can fully respect someone for inventing something and wanting credit and payment for it, but when people use this stuff SPECIFICALLY so other people can’t use it, is just lame and vindictive.
Wonder Woman game is going to use this system
Don’t they have a better franchise to work with?
Yeah, I’d rather DC didn’t go woke too, but here we are. Can’t they just make another Batman game? Who wants a woman protagonist?
/S
I don’t give a fuck about politics in gaming, I want to relax in the evening with a game that doesn’t have a boring main character. WB have the rights to Constantine and V for Vendetta, both could make excellent games and Constantine especially would work well with this mechanic.
Having a female protagonist isn’t fucking politics and Wonder Woman has been a fan favorite character for 80 fucking years. Just say you don’t want to have a female protagonist.
Pretty sure the gaming scene has changed a bit in the past 80 years, nobody is talking about comic books in this context. I didn’t say I actively don’t want female protagonists, I said I don’t want boring characters. All genders are equal (except for attack helicopters), if they are a boring character then they are still boring.
It made the game 5 times as interesting. The gameplay got a little boring but those nemesis battles kept you going. I also liked the idea in the second game where you could plant your own turned enemies in the army hierarchy, and then hunt / help them when challenging foes to progress them.
I’ve not seen any other game do something like this ?
It made the game 5 times as interesting
It was the only thing interesting about the game. Don’t get me wrong I fucking loved both games but their systems were blatantly taken from other games. The combat was copy paste batman arkham games, the gear system was the same white common-orange legendary that literally every single game uses, the stealth was simplified Assassins creed and the whole story was based on the most successful fantasy IP of all time.
They copied the systems from other games to make these ones fucking phenomenal, and then the only innovative thing they created they patented. If all those other systems had been patented the shadow of lotr games wouldve been extremely lacklustre, so going off the back of other companies hard work they create amazing games and then patent its special flavour.
There are so many games that couldve benefited from the nemesis system and I still cannot believe they were allowed to fucking patent it. Fuck WB but fuck the judge that approved that even more.
It was the only thing interesting about the game. Don’t get me wrong I fucking loved both games but their systems were blatantly taken from other games. The combat was copy paste batman arkham games, the gear system was the same white common-orange legendary that literally every single game uses, the stealth was simplified Assassins creed and the whole story was based on the most successful fantasy IP of all time.
They copied the systems from other games to make these ones fucking phenomenal,
I sort of hate the idea that just because another game already did it, it somehow doesn’t count or isn’t interesting for another game to iterate on those ideas.
If it was great when the Arkham games did it, and the Middle Earth games do it as well, then they should be considered as great for doing so
I think the issue is so many 2010 games did the same exact thing, ryse son of Rome. Mad max, batman, mordor
I mean, what’s more important, the guy who invented the plane or a guy who also built a plane later down the line?
Games should get credit for being the first to come up with new systems. There is also some credit to be had in making improvements to the formula, but it doesn’t mean that copying another game makes you as good as that game, otherwise those early porn game and Christian game Doom clones should be remembered as fondly as Doom.
I mean, what’s more important, the guy who invented the plane or a guy who also built a plane later down the line?
I’d rather use a steel mace then a wooden stick even if the stick did it first.