• FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
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    8 months ago

    Counterpoints

    1. You just described how the police were assembled in the first place.

    2. The enemy of this situation are also not police but instead thousands of organized members of an extra-judicial group who do round-the-clock patrols of the city, replete with their own intelligence network and radio dispatch system.

    • BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net
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      8 months ago

      Counterpoints

      1. Incorrect, the modern police as we know it today (meaning i exclude the army used in ancient times, as they had a different nature to the police), was assembled to protect private property, to catch slaves, and to stomp down worker movements.

      2. If they were not extra judicial, it wouldn’t have mattered, the police themselves were also used to abuse protesters in the past, it wasn’t “legal” but it doesn’t ultimately matter because the state has the monopoly on violence, so nothing substantial was done about it. And also, ICE and the police have a very large intersection of recruits, as they both give you protection and ample opportunity to abuse minorities and poor people.

      The Gestapo ICE is what you get when the ruling class successfully creates a second police.

      • FiniteBanjo@feddit.online
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        8 months ago

        Got it, when it’s the opponents or majority’s beliefs it’s the oppressive above-the-law police but when it’s your beliefs then it’s the righteous citizens community actions committee.

        ICE activities are blatantly illegal across the board, the only legal basis they have to lean on is executive orders which do not give them power to ignore the constitution. Rather than call them police, criminal gang would be more fitting.

        • MountainVeil@slrpnk.net
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          8 months ago

          The difference is that one is hired by capitalists to protect capital (whether that be slaves or shipments) and the other is organized by communities to protect communities. One is based on greed and self interest, the other is based on personal safety and care for your neighbors. The difference goes a little farther beyond mere belief and emerges from the economic system itself.

          https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/

        • BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net
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          8 months ago

          The police are already oppressive and above the law despite my point, i was hinting at ICE.

          And communities should organize to protect themselves, that being “illegal” doesn’t make it automatically wrong.

          P.S. ICE “only leaning on executive orders which do not give them power to ignore the constitution” is incredibly naive, the American constitution means jack shit for the working class, and them being protected by the government only makes them more like the police, not less, and makes the police more like a criminal gang too.

    • kibiz0r@midwest.social
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      8 months ago
      1. You just described how the police were assembled in the first place.

      You would intuitively think (or hope) so, right? That’s certainly how we would do it today, if we were starting from scratch.

      But historically? No.

      Police started as private security for shops, then got subsidized by public money (capitalists do hate paying for things), then when people were like “Why do we pay your salary when all you do is protect rich people’s property?”, they were like “That’s not true. We also, uhhh… Hmm. Oh! We catch escaped slaves. And that keeps you safe. (Also the slaves are rich people’s property, so it’s a win-win-win!)”

      https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-behind-the-police-63877803/episode/slavery-mass-murder-and-the-birth-of-american-policing-63913352

    • Scubus@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago
      1. So? If they become a problem we deal with them then.

      2. Thats completely irrelevant to their point. Their point being that the current iteration of the police is unnecessary, and youve done nothing to address that.

      Hope this didnt come off as aggressive, i sometimes have issues toning my text