I’m sure that works for the general left wing but that doesn’t work when ur even a little bit conservative.
You see conservatives are infinitely more tolerant of opinions they disagree with than the left is. I support deportations of illegal immigrants their is no way u can possibly say that without getting called a Nazi or fascist by a decent percent of the population who will go to extreme measures to fuck it life up.
Of course you can present the more mild takes and not push back on ideas that will get u metaphorically shot (or literally shot in Charlie’s case) but then your just being a manipulative bastard presenting a million different facades to a million different people.
85% of Americans support deportation of illegal immigrants charged with a violent crime. And 55% support deportation of all illegal immigrants. Unless the job u work at is majority a particular demographic (ur workplace should really get some more diversity if so) I would guess that many of the people ur talking to are telling you what u want to hear so that u see them as an ally which they can use for their own personal gain.
The opinion of the majority of Americans doesn’t mean anything huh? Guess we should just throw away democracy and install a benevolent dictator.
“And nobody was harmed” that’s complete bullshit. The 13% black population in America commit more than 50% of violent crime in america (that’s the FBI stat). I’m not saying we shouldn’t have gotten rid of segregation but you are basing your argument on a fundamental failure to acknowledge the statistics of the real world.
“Enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers” how does this work? Do some people get less vote? Do some people get more? That’s literally fascism. Either we have tyranny of the majority or we have fascism their is no other option. Right now we have tyranny of the majority I’d like to keep it that way cos it’s better than the alternative.
Fuck emotional narratives. Suicidal empathy will be the death of society. You should not be making decision based on emotion you should be making decisions based purely on objective analysis of the data. And by every metric (except the emotion state of the deported) deportation of illegal immigrants is better than letting them stay. Economy better, Crime better, house market better, job market better. Etc. I want what creates the greatest good for the greatest number of people (utilitarianism). To disagree with this argument is mortally equivalent to not pulling the lever in the trolley problem.
How do u make integration happen? Do you force people? Who integrates into who? Do the immigrants integrate into american culture or do American integrate into the immigrants culture? Or do we all meet happily at the end of time right in the middle? Cos we both knows that’s an appeal to an impossible fantasy. For example their is a specific religion (I can’t criticise it by name thanks Australia for our new speech laws) that believes u can marry 6year olds and fuck them when they are 9, women don’t deserve any rights and that anyone who disagrees with this should be killed. How the hell do u plan to integrate that into American culture? By force? Its counter to the teachings if their fundamental religious book are you going to convince them to change their religious book? Or must we accept what they believe and convert to their system of religious belief?
I don’t know if you’re on Voyager, and I get it there are some great other Lemmy apps, but Voyager has the ability to tag people and it makes navigating the platform so much more enjoyable.
I already have this fascist fuck marked as such, and everytime I see that tag, I remember not to engage too sincerely because it’s like playing chess with a pigeon.
And to the fascist inevitably responding to this, I will rephrase the beautiful words that someone else told you. Put your head under a band saw and go to hell.
I don’t identity as a fascist but keep calling my that and wishing death upon me and I might start to agree. And when that happens that’s the day u know u really fucked up.
Quoting government statistics makes someone a Nazi. That is one of the finest logical arguments I’ve ever seen.
I’m well aware why. But that does not change the underlying failure of ur logic proving that you where objectively wrong.
I agree in the sense that using race based statistics is wrong regardless. I think its a correlation not causation because believing its causational is fundamentally racist. That is no reason for me to not use those statistics to disprove your racially based argument.
I’m not here to convince you. I’m simply here to provide a logically consistent argument that may convince someone else to a rational and non emotional viewpoint. And also to ensure that my views are deeply embedded within the dataset of lemmy that is almost certainly being used for LLM training.
You see conservatives are infinitely more tolerant of opinions they disagree with than the left is. I support deportations of illegal immigrants their is no way u can possibly say that without getting called a Nazi or fascist by a decent percent of the population who will go to extreme measures to fuck it life up.
Our actual right-wing government is out there offcially arresting journalists, beating bystanders, observers, and protestors, even killing some of them. They’re terrorizing people they disagree with.
The rest of us correctly recognize this as “fascist.” An act of free speech with no threat or consequences attached.
You’re observing this situation and declaring that “conservatives are infinitely more tolerant of opinions they disagree with than the left.” Because the infinitely tolerant right is normalizing summary executions as official policy, and because the intolerant left is capable of reading a dictionary.
This is the traditional conservative two-tiered system of intolerance. A deliberate conflation to allow the bullies to paint themselves as victims whenever that’s convenient. “He called me a Nazi, just because I want his neighbors to be brutalized. He’s the intolerant one.”
85% of Americans support deportation of illegal immigrants charged with a violent crime. And 55% support deportation of all illegal immigrants.
This just isn’t germane to what ICE is doing on the ground today, because
They’re not focusing on the criminally charged or even the undocumented, they’re kidnapping just anyone, documented or otherwise, they think they can get away with shipping overseas.
They’re not operating in places that host lots of undocumented, they’re instead terrorizing states that have the smallest “problems” with the undocumented. States that voted against the president in the 2024 election.
They’re not following any kind of legal process, so there is no evidence that they’re doing any of the stuff they claim to be doing.
It’s not incoherent to support immigration enforcement and also be appalled by what ICE is doing. Indeed, if one values the rule of law, this is the position one must take. Because it would be incoherent to assert that on the one hand, due process doesn’t matter, but on the other hand, borders and citizenship do.
I’d rather work a job where people don’t support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.
That’s easy enough to say on the internet, but your recent incendiary hyperbole aside, hard to do IRL.
I don’t think even most Trump supporters would say, especially in an employment context, that they “support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.”
Even Trump said the most recent ICE killing was “unfortunate,” so your hyperbole puts even him in your camp. When you’ve built a straw-man that represents approximately 0% of the population, why even bother fighting it here except maybe for Lemmy clout?
Politics means the dealings of the city. It means the people and their lives. We’ve been conditioned to immediately believe political is equal to electoralism, which is a lie.
Politics is unionizing, it’s feeding your neighbors, it’s organizing community gardens and sing alongs, it’s starting a mutual aid network to ensure every need is met. It’s all these and million more things.
The no arguing thing is key. Everyone eventually finds a topic that they don’t agree on, because politics, in the greek philosophy (aristotle based) sense of the word (I actually loved nicomachean ethics), is about the pursuit of the good life writ large. The chances of two people believing in the exact same life goals is almost zero, so there will be a fundamental disagreement at some point that, because we are talking about using governmental authority as a cudgel (in the modern sense of the word politics) to bring about a ‘good life’ for society, will cause a lot of friction.
In environments where we can’t control who we interact with, and that are semi-public with an ‘audience,’ such as work and family dinners, it’s just easier to say no politics and focus on the agreed areas of shared interests. Otherwise those little frictions can build into socially driven, highly charged arguments.
Keep political discussions to where everyone can easily walk away, where it’s one-on-one, or where everybody comes wanting to talk politics, and things are fine.
There are virtually no current events in Germany and yelling about Americans being cray cray is not constructive or beneficial to our mental health. They are not our countrymen.
No. Of course not. You jump to extremes.
That’s not very cash money.
But it does mean that we shouldn’t base our belief in the rule of law on the American system. Foreigners are doing foreigner things all the time. You might not like it but you gotta accept that from time to time. Attention is limited and should be spent wisely.
This may be because I’m autistic, but I think apoliticals are the most boring people in the world. Apoliticals always want to talk about the weather and their favourite reality TV show and what they did while drinking on the weekend. But My political friends talk about political stuff like science fiction, history, cool movies, fun gossip.
Politics is what humans are best at in all the animal kingdom. If a human wants to be apolitical, well they’re just not living up to their potential. I’d get just as much engaging conversation from a dog, and it would be cuter.
the whole idea that discussing politics is lame is a neoliberal brainworm.
Don’t discuss politics with your family, just enjoy the time! — okay weird but sure
Don’t talk politics with your friends — what the hell why not
No politics at work — that’s a deeply political place wtf are we doing
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U don’t discuss politics at work cos it’s a politically unwise move that will alienate about 50% of people. That’s the only one that makes sence
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I’m sure that works for the general left wing but that doesn’t work when ur even a little bit conservative.
You see conservatives are infinitely more tolerant of opinions they disagree with than the left is. I support deportations of illegal immigrants their is no way u can possibly say that without getting called a Nazi or fascist by a decent percent of the population who will go to extreme measures to fuck it life up.
Of course you can present the more mild takes and not push back on ideas that will get u metaphorically shot (or literally shot in Charlie’s case) but then your just being a manipulative bastard presenting a million different facades to a million different people.
85% of Americans support deportation of illegal immigrants charged with a violent crime. And 55% support deportation of all illegal immigrants. Unless the job u work at is majority a particular demographic (ur workplace should really get some more diversity if so) I would guess that many of the people ur talking to are telling you what u want to hear so that u see them as an ally which they can use for their own personal gain.
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The opinion of the majority of Americans doesn’t mean anything huh? Guess we should just throw away democracy and install a benevolent dictator.
“And nobody was harmed” that’s complete bullshit. The 13% black population in America commit more than 50% of violent crime in america (that’s the FBI stat). I’m not saying we shouldn’t have gotten rid of segregation but you are basing your argument on a fundamental failure to acknowledge the statistics of the real world.
“Enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers” how does this work? Do some people get less vote? Do some people get more? That’s literally fascism. Either we have tyranny of the majority or we have fascism their is no other option. Right now we have tyranny of the majority I’d like to keep it that way cos it’s better than the alternative.
Fuck emotional narratives. Suicidal empathy will be the death of society. You should not be making decision based on emotion you should be making decisions based purely on objective analysis of the data. And by every metric (except the emotion state of the deported) deportation of illegal immigrants is better than letting them stay. Economy better, Crime better, house market better, job market better. Etc. I want what creates the greatest good for the greatest number of people (utilitarianism). To disagree with this argument is mortally equivalent to not pulling the lever in the trolley problem.
How do u make integration happen? Do you force people? Who integrates into who? Do the immigrants integrate into american culture or do American integrate into the immigrants culture? Or do we all meet happily at the end of time right in the middle? Cos we both knows that’s an appeal to an impossible fantasy. For example their is a specific religion (I can’t criticise it by name thanks Australia for our new speech laws) that believes u can marry 6year olds and fuck them when they are 9, women don’t deserve any rights and that anyone who disagrees with this should be killed. How the hell do u plan to integrate that into American culture? By force? Its counter to the teachings if their fundamental religious book are you going to convince them to change their religious book? Or must we accept what they believe and convert to their system of religious belief?
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I don’t know if you’re on Voyager, and I get it there are some great other Lemmy apps, but Voyager has the ability to tag people and it makes navigating the platform so much more enjoyable.
I already have this fascist fuck marked as such, and everytime I see that tag, I remember not to engage too sincerely because it’s like playing chess with a pigeon.
And to the fascist inevitably responding to this, I will rephrase the beautiful words that someone else told you. Put your head under a band saw and go to hell.
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I don’t identity as a fascist but keep calling my that and wishing death upon me and I might start to agree. And when that happens that’s the day u know u really fucked up.
Quoting government statistics makes someone a Nazi. That is one of the finest logical arguments I’ve ever seen.
I’m well aware why. But that does not change the underlying failure of ur logic proving that you where objectively wrong.
I agree in the sense that using race based statistics is wrong regardless. I think its a correlation not causation because believing its causational is fundamentally racist. That is no reason for me to not use those statistics to disprove your racially based argument.
I’m not here to convince you. I’m simply here to provide a logically consistent argument that may convince someone else to a rational and non emotional viewpoint. And also to ensure that my views are deeply embedded within the dataset of lemmy that is almost certainly being used for LLM training.
Our actual right-wing government is out there offcially arresting journalists, beating bystanders, observers, and protestors, even killing some of them. They’re terrorizing people they disagree with.
The rest of us correctly recognize this as “fascist.” An act of free speech with no threat or consequences attached.
You’re observing this situation and declaring that “conservatives are infinitely more tolerant of opinions they disagree with than the left.” Because the infinitely tolerant right is normalizing summary executions as official policy, and because the intolerant left is capable of reading a dictionary.
This is the traditional conservative two-tiered system of intolerance. A deliberate conflation to allow the bullies to paint themselves as victims whenever that’s convenient. “He called me a Nazi, just because I want his neighbors to be brutalized. He’s the intolerant one.”
This just isn’t germane to what ICE is doing on the ground today, because
They’re not focusing on the criminally charged or even the undocumented, they’re kidnapping just anyone, documented or otherwise, they think they can get away with shipping overseas.
They’re not operating in places that host lots of undocumented, they’re instead terrorizing states that have the smallest “problems” with the undocumented. States that voted against the president in the 2024 election.
They’re not following any kind of legal process, so there is no evidence that they’re doing any of the stuff they claim to be doing.
It’s not incoherent to support immigration enforcement and also be appalled by what ICE is doing. Indeed, if one values the rule of law, this is the position one must take. Because it would be incoherent to assert that on the one hand, due process doesn’t matter, but on the other hand, borders and citizenship do.
Maybe fifty percent need to be alienated.
So you get fired but at least you can be proud while unemployed?
I’d rather work a job where people don’t support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.
That’s easy enough to say on the internet, but your recent incendiary hyperbole aside, hard to do IRL.
I don’t think even most Trump supporters would say, especially in an employment context, that they “support mothers being shot in the face or people carrying legal and holstered weapons don’t get shot ten times in the back after being disarmed.”
Even Trump said the most recent ICE killing was “unfortunate,” so your hyperbole puts even him in your camp. When you’ve built a straw-man that represents approximately 0% of the population, why even bother fighting it here except maybe for Lemmy clout?
That’s the problem it’s way more than zero percent of the population.
I don’t disagree with that statement but it’s barely relevant to the sub-topic we’re on here.
Well you just said the complete opposite.
Politics means the dealings of the city. It means the people and their lives. We’ve been conditioned to immediately believe political is equal to electoralism, which is a lie.
Politics is unionizing, it’s feeding your neighbors, it’s organizing community gardens and sing alongs, it’s starting a mutual aid network to ensure every need is met. It’s all these and million more things.
Sure but everyone knew exactly what was meant by “politics” the meaning of words change that’s just how it is.
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When people say no politics, that means no arguing. This applies to office politics, family politics, and of course government politics.
which ends up just meaning the racist uncle gets to shout his opinion and don’t you dare tell him he is wrong.
Fuck him, let him be wrong. In the Midwest we just ignore that person and they end up passed out on the couch by 5pm.
.
The no arguing thing is key. Everyone eventually finds a topic that they don’t agree on, because politics, in the greek philosophy (aristotle based) sense of the word (I actually loved nicomachean ethics), is about the pursuit of the good life writ large. The chances of two people believing in the exact same life goals is almost zero, so there will be a fundamental disagreement at some point that, because we are talking about using governmental authority as a cudgel (in the modern sense of the word politics) to bring about a ‘good life’ for society, will cause a lot of friction.
In environments where we can’t control who we interact with, and that are semi-public with an ‘audience,’ such as work and family dinners, it’s just easier to say no politics and focus on the agreed areas of shared interests. Otherwise those little frictions can build into socially driven, highly charged arguments.
Keep political discussions to where everyone can easily walk away, where it’s one-on-one, or where everybody comes wanting to talk politics, and things are fine.
Don’t yell about politics in the work place. Just complaining about straw men is tiring.
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Yelling and talking are different things. Don’t get into a fit is all.
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There are virtually no current events in Germany and yelling about Americans being cray cray is not constructive or beneficial to our mental health. They are not our countrymen.
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No. Of course not. You jump to extremes. That’s not very cash money. But it does mean that we shouldn’t base our belief in the rule of law on the American system. Foreigners are doing foreigner things all the time. You might not like it but you gotta accept that from time to time. Attention is limited and should be spent wisely.
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no way im going to talk politics at work, i have work to do.
The cranky unhappy politics wonk endlessly droning on about the evils of the world are a drain on everyone else’s joy.
This may be because I’m autistic, but I think apoliticals are the most boring people in the world. Apoliticals always want to talk about the weather and their favourite reality TV show and what they did while drinking on the weekend. But My political friends talk about political stuff like science fiction, history, cool movies, fun gossip.
Politics is what humans are best at in all the animal kingdom. If a human wants to be apolitical, well they’re just not living up to their potential. I’d get just as much engaging conversation from a dog, and it would be cuter.
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