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Okay uhm lemme see…
- nutritional deficiencies, may be relevant if you’re too silly to remember to take supplements
- you’re not supporting the egg and dairy industries (think of all the small independent multimillion industrial farming complexes)
uhm
- you’re gonna be a beta (something something women are to be treated as objects but they’re also evil because they don’t like me or however the manosphere mantra goes)
yeah I think that’s all I got
Don’t go vegan. Don’t go crazy on meat either.
Eat Billionaires instead
This vegan can make an exception for the ruling class :3
Carnist here, feel free to ratio me in the comments.
The thing that I find most annoying in these intermittent “debates” where various people with different believes make starwmen and yell past one another is the shocking disconnect between people and the food that they eat at a fundamental level.
I am firmly of the belief that people need to be aware of what goes into the production of the food that they eat and look at the consequences of their actions directly.
People who eat meet but divorce that dish from the animal who made it are misguided at best to delusional at worst.
Similarly people who champion the removal of animal products but won’t look into the eyes of a combine harvester and the animal it has ran over, the displacement or slaughter of animals in the clearing of farmlands, the increase in water consumption as new areas are turned over to fast cash crop agriculture based on whatever the current trend is, the removal of byproducts from industry such as long lasting leathers of adhesive products in exchange for quick rotting fast fashion made largely of petroleum products, and the costs associated with all of that are also misguided at best to delusional at worst.
Independence and community support are the best answer. But when so many see the people they live alongside as enemies what hope do we have of cooperation.
So maybe instead of fighting one another over petty concerns we can come together and take a look at the system trying to keep people apart and reliant on its own monstrous excess
Similarly people who champion the removal of animal products but won’t look into the eyes of a combine harvester and the animal it has ran over, the displacement or slaughter of animals in the clearing of farmlands, the increase in water consumption as new areas are turned over to fast cash crop agriculture based on whatever the current trend is,
Animal products require the cultivation of more plants than vegan food. Animals need to be fed, and they burn tons of calories to stay alive.
the removal of byproducts from industry such as long lasting leathers of adhesive products in exchange for quick rotting fast fashion made largely of petroleum products, and the costs associated with all of that are also misguided at best to delusional at worst.
Without subsidies, it is cheaper to make long-lasting bioplastics from plant matter than to raise a cow and kill it for its skin. The fashion industry makes clothes that decay in order to sell more clothes, and the meat industry artificially lowers the price of leather.
So maybe instead of fighting one another over petty concerns we can come together and take a look at the system trying to keep people apart and reliant on its own monstrous excess
Agreed, you should take a look at the system and let go of your petty concerns. This will make you vegan.
“Without subsidies, it is cheaper to make long-lasting bioplastics from plant matter than to raise a cow and kill it for its skin. The fashion industry makes clothes that decay in order to sell more clothes, and the meat industry artificially lowers the price of leather.”
This post is why we can’t have nice things.
Also, is this true? This feels like one of those statements made with confidence that may also not be true. I know bioplastics still have issues with regard to synthesis that does have environmental impact and does not breakdown after synthesis. Also, corn is also heavily subsidized. It’s kind of difficult to take this comment at face value given the unnecessarily personalized debate strategy you utilized.
I’m just here with popcorn, don’t mind me.
Because I am failure.
I don’t have a kitchen, and most ready to eat food is non-vegan.
I am currently living either with parents or at dorm.
Parents are hoarders, so the kitchen can be considered out of service. There’s no space, and it’s far from food-safe.
The dorm kitchen is shared between ~20 people, and I don’t do well around those, so I haven’t used it. Plus the situation with electric appliances is complicated there. I’d have to somehow haul my own fridge over there. And get it approved first, so more human contact.
I also share a room with someone, so I just try to do least of anything over there.
As I only tend to eat once a day, this is economically doable.Our uni also has a cafeteria, but I haven’t yet been there because… I haven’t yet been there. I don’t know how it works. I tried observing others, but I see the order system is done using some touchscreen terminal, the UI of which I don’t know (I was watching from further away), and I couldn’t find any precise manual online. Actually, I couldn’t find any manual online.
Vegan rule
For me its because I cant afford to, I’m still living with my reactionary parents and they would never buy anything vegan
I believe in equal rights for all living things. Plants get the axe, same as the meat-bags.
my species is at the top of the food chain and i intend to make the most of the privilege :)
You could argue that the current top of the food chain is antibiotica-resistant bacteria.
Getting on that MDRO diet to show nature who truly is the king of the jungle
I’m allergic to everything. Mushrooms, soy/tofu, tree nuts (but not peanuts), raw fruits (and some cooked), raw veggies.
I’m Mexican but even I can only eat so many beans in one week. I’ll stick with doin my best though.
I genuinely think this is one of the few good reasons not to be fully vegan. Props to you for still doing your best despite how frustrating all those allergies must be.
From a climate/environmental perspective, just reducing or eliminating beef makes the most impact. Chicken and fish use far less resources and far fewer emissions per lb.
Thanks for wanting to help out :)
big fan of “look at this graaaaaaaaph… How about we all just stop eating cows and pigs, that’s not really a big deal is it? chicken tastes good too!”
I used to be allergic to soy and most fruits 20 years ago. Thankfully that calmed down and went away with most things.
Reducing meat intake and replacing it with veggies where you can does heaps for the environment. Your best is phenomenal, if everyone did your best, I bet the industries would adapt and offer more alternatives you aren’t allergic to, so you had more choice to evolve what “your best” is.
Sadly this is probably going to be a generational change, multi generational even, so please don’t chastise yourself for not being able to do more.
Me for example, I try to use vegan/vegetarian ingredients where I can but I’m lazy and also eat meat every 2-3 days. The moment I learn of a new lazy healthy product that tastes good I introduce it to my diet, it’s a slow process lol.
To the non vegans willing to approach this with an open mind:
I would highly recommend you to watch this.
Ethical reasons aside, if you do care about the environment and climate change, then vegan diets have a much much lower negative environmental impact.
If you’re smart with it, then vegan diets tend to be a lot cheaper too! Most humans are lactose intolerant. Maybe you are too. If you are, then switching to vegan milks could mean less gases, farts and bloating. It’s quite comfortable to not have all that…
That being said, if you do switch to a vegan diet, you would quite likely need vitamin supplementation (at least I do).
What vitamins do you need to supplement?
Vitamin B12 (if you don’t eat any vegan meat and cheese substitutes since those are often fortified), vitamin D (everyone should supplement this, not just vegans) and iron if you’re pregnant.
Fun fact: People who eat meat from factory farming (virtually every meat eater) also rely on vitamin supplementation.
Only with extra steps: The cattle get the supplements. Cause they don’t graze on lush natural meadows anymore, they’re fed mostly corn.You do realize that meat-eaters usually aren’t subsisting solely off of meat, right? They don’t need to rely on vitamin supplementation, that’s the whole point of a balanced diet. If they eat all the stuff that’s important on a regular enough basis, they’ll be fine even if you take the supplements away from farm animals.
Cause they don’t graze on lush natural meadows anymore, they’re fed mostly corn.
This is too localized of a point, in Canada for example the diets of farm animals are regulated to consist of much more than just corn. Admittedly I’m not sure about other countries, though I’m sure there are others similar in that regard.
Granted, I should have limited my statement to B12.
One of the main arguments against veganism is that it isn’t “natural” cause you need B12 supplements and there’s no way around that.
But farm animals usually also get B12 supplements because the bacteria that actually produces it (and then puts it in the grass) only lives in natural soil.
So only cattle who can actually graze will get it. If they are fed from industrially made feed, it needs to be supplemented.
Btw
Vegan version of Arch: “I eat tofu btw”
I say this as a vegan who consumes a lot of the soy loaf that is tofu
Devils Advocate: Some reasons outweigh others.
The list of why you should never get on a airplane is also very long.
Most common reason and arguably the real reason for most people not wanting to be vegan:
“But meat tastes so good, and I neeeed my pRoTEiN”
Same is true for Flying:
“Sure Flying burns huge amounts of fuel, releases greenhouse gases high in the atmosphere, and contributes to the climate damage, but my holidays and travel time is more important”
You’re just making a convincing case for not flying and changing habits / traditions to suit.
And calling out some hypocrisies.
Most people are only willing to make sacrifices for animals/the-environment as long as it suites their lifestyle.
OMG I’ll never eat fish that’s murder. 😡
12h+ flight flight to go on holiday 🥺👉👈 Whoopsie
I’m not vegan or vegeterian. But I feel like that “unless you are doing both” is kinda a wrong argument to make, even almost bad faith.
Because i could say “ah so you are anti work abuse? Curious, you are using a phone made by leveraging abuse”
I think a more honest argument would be to weight the possibilities and the outcomes.
Producing meat does increase the carbon footprint, and the same can be said for flying.
The idea is, how much can beign vegan reduce this footprint, and how much removing unnecessary flights can save? So overall, how much i am saving doing one of those, instead of both?
Also, eating is an everyday activity, flying usually isn’t (in the example you reported)
I have no answers, i just didn’t like the argument
Fair enough,
The point I’m trying to make is there are many ways to live more ethically, If you’re a vegan but fly a private jet, you don’t give a fuck about the environment, you’re just pretending you do.
You could also not be a vegan and care more about the environment than a lot of vegans.
I knew a militant vegan who removed the emissions filter from his diesel car, and tuned it to ‘roll coal’ (emit tons of smoke) because he thought it was cool.
There’s a lot of nuance
Yeah we can agree on that one, of course cognitive dissonance is a thing so it’s ok to point it out. (I love animals but i eat meat, so I’m a perfect example)
The important thing is trying to remain civil, and looking for a discussion, rather than trying to dunk on one idea or the other (this in particular to vegans too)
fly a private jet,
Whom on Lemmy does that apply to?
Anyway, the point being made here is to make better decisions where reasonably possible. If you dive deep enough, absolutely nothing is fully ethical.Like cleaning up your drive. You have little storage left, so you do a scan with Filelight.
Do you care about:
a) 1,000 20KiB config files
b) 40GiB pacman cache
c) 50GiB of musicYou can probably just get rid of pacman cache, but with the size, you might just as well get rid of your music, no? What’s the point of removing pacman cache if your music is worse?
My reason is that I tried it, after focusing my attention on researching micronutrients for weeks, making an elaborate meal plan that covers everything, and taking supplements.
After 4 weeks, I felt hungry no matter how much I ate, and then I found a tuft of my hair in the shower sink.
I then ate a blue rare steak and it felt like a rush of euphoria and relief. I was giggling while I ate.I don’t know what I was missing, but after so much research I was pretty sure I couldn’t figure it out.
So now I’m a “weekday vegan” + an occasional piece of blue cheese, meat or liver, and I’m feeling fine.
Both are “money”
im not vegan however i do want that animals would not be treated in the way most industrial farms treat them
Fair enough. Now do something about it….
I buy meat from local farmers who treat their animals well, when I choose to eat meat. Most of the time I just don’t eat meat.
You won’t take cheese and milk from me tho.
What do you think happens to dairy cows after they stop producing milk? Your cheese and milk still fuels the system. It’s fine if you want to do that but don’t pretend they’re not interconnected systems.
Nevermind cows who aren’t producing milk anymore, Milk cows need to have a calf every year to give milk. Milk is essentially non-vegetarian from an ethical point of view.
Interesting that no one sees themselves as the 1% yet simultaneously hold the belief they eat the 1% of animals that are not factory farmed.
Is it 2012 again? I thought we’d grown past this dumb shit
We haven’t, there are still plenty of dumb carnists trying to frame vegans as extremists.
dumb carnists
That sounds like an insult, and not just the dumb part. It seems you’re also part of the problem
Excellent way to make people respect your opinion.
We don’t even think about you. The only time I hear vegan, despite eating mostly vegetarian is here with reddit/Lemmy screeching.
Hahahahahha. Just don’t comment on these posts then. It’s literally that easy. No one here wants to hear your baby vomit of an opinion. lol
Posts a post from their point of view
Gets a comment from someone else point of view
“Why would you comment on a forum!?”
???
Oh wow, a contrarian rudely comments on a forum post within a community that they don’t support or even think about (despite being bothered enough to comment on posts there) and when their mean spirited comment isn’t appreciated, it’s somehow surprising?
???
Are you lost?
lol. Apparently I actually am. Haha
…this is c/196
lol. I am lost! Haha
Removed by mod
Just don’t comment on these posts then. It’s literally that easy. No one here wants to hear your baby vomit of an opinion
Take your own advice
Ooh good one. lol
Dumbass, you made a post on an open forum. You deserve whatever comments you get. That’s the whole point.
