• timdrake@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    The dictionary can be wrong about what a concept is (see: God). Regardless of any formal definition (and there isn’t just one formal definition of socialism), capitalism (capital-ism) requires state ownership and market administration to some degree in order to be what it is.

    • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      The problem is you are thinking of capitalism and socialism as a binary. An economy can incorporate elements of both (and usually does). Most capitalist economies incorporate some amount of socialism with utilities and essential services. Most socialist economies incorporate some amount of capitalism with entertainment.

      • timdrake@lemmy.ml
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        19 hours ago

        You can’t “incorporate” with capitalism “elements” that are necessarily immanent to it, that constitute an aspect of what capitalism is. State regulation, ownership is not some other to capitalism. Capitalism cannot be what it is without these elements (ex. capitalism requires contract law and the protection of private property rights, which requires a state, state-operated courts and police forces, whose existence cannot be subject to market forces as with private companies). This is not capitalism taking elements from socialism.

        • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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          4 hours ago

          Regulation is not separate from capitalism, but we aren’t talking about regulation. We are talking about state control, which is explicitly socialist. State ownership vs private ownership is literally the fundamental distinction between socialism and capitalism. In a fully capitalist system there can be no state ownership of means of production

          capitalism requires contract law and the protection of private property rights, which requires a state, state-operated courts and police forces, whose existence cannot be subject to market forces as with private companies

          Incorrect. Many corporations include arbitration clauses in contracts. This stipulates that disputes do not use government courts, rather using private third party arbitrators to litigate disputes. These courts are capitalist. Government courts are not capitalist (not saying they are socialist either).