Israel isn’t going to stop until they free the hostages and capture or (more likely kill) Yahya Sinwar.
Civilian casualties are a by product of war. This war won’t end until the objectives have been accomplished.
Would you prefer Israel use the most accurate munitions possible when fighting in an urban combat scenario or less accurate weapons. Less accurate weapons means more civilian casualties.
Of course it would all be over if Hamas surrendered, odd how no one is calling for a group that committed actual genocide (rather than the internet meme version of “genocide” Israel is accused of) to surrender and face justice. If that happened the war would be over and there would be no more civilian casualties. But internet memes is more important than reality to a lot of people I guess.
israel won’t stop until they’ve ethnically cleansed all of Gaza and the West Bank. Whether they do it through genocide or forced emigration or a combination of the two, that is the real objective. Hamas is israel’s #1 asset in this mission since it gives them the excuse and idiots actually believe this excuse.
Israel can stop the famine right now, just by letting aid in or civilians out. It’s not even about the 2,000 pound bombs anymore. That was abhorrent. This is systemic murder.
That’s not how reality works. And we all agreed that starving entire populations to death as a collective form of punishment is illegal a long long time ago now. We even hung some people for it in a place called Nuremberg.
Look at a map. Egypt controls a border with Gaza. Egypt could allow refugees into Egypt, so why don’t they? Egypt is controlling the flow of aid into Gaza. Why isn’t Egypt allowing more aid in?
But the goal isn’t to create hatred against Egypt is it? The goal isn’t to criticize the UN for incompetence either. The goal is to create hatred toward Israel, and all facts that don’t further this goal are ignored. Because it’s a propaganda campaign.
Israel is literally committing genocide and ethnic cleansing on the daily. Even before October 7th, they have been illegally settling for decades. There are numerous government ministers and Knesset members that have called publicly for said genocide and ethnic cleansing. Some have said there is no such thing as a Palestinian civilian. Some were giving speeches at a rally with an org that was planning how to re-establish settlements in Gaza.
The onus should not be on Egypt to take in refugees. The onus should be on Israel to stop its genocidal actions and ethnic cleansing campaign. You know… The thing that’s causing the Palestinians to be in a position where they would need to flee to Egypt in the first place.
The onus should be on Hamas to surrender and face justice for what they did on October 7. But since everyone gives them a free pass on violence towards Jews this necessitated a war which Hamas set up to maximize civilian casualties. Because it’s been an effective propaganda tool for them.
So what have they learned from October 7? People like you will look the other way and give them support. Oh you’ll say you don’t support Hamas, but only when pressed. But the default behaviour is to look the other way on their violent actions, even when they go into villages and massacre everyone they can find.
The success of Hamas in committing a genocidal act and converting it into sympathy for them while created hatred towards the people they massacred means there is no reason for them to not try to do it again. This is why Hamas needs to be destroyed. The propaganda success they’ve had from October 7 incentivizes them to do it again. A propaganda campaign you’re a part, whether you know it or not.
Egypt isn’t taking in refugees because they understand what Hamas is. They don’t want these psychopaths to be within their borders and Hamas hides within the civilian population. So there’s no way for Egypt to allow in refugees without also allowing in Hamas, which they don’t want. You’re ignoring this like you’re ignoring the genocidal acts of Hamas because it’s inconvenient to your narrative. You need to be hyper-focussed on hating Israel or the whole thing falls apart, doesn’t it?
If you were capable of really considering what Hamas is, what they’ve done you wouldn’t be thinking the way you do. But hatred is the kind of thing that doesn’t allow you to think about anything other than your enemy. Right?
Not supporting Terrorism is the default position dude. Nobody needs to be pressed, they just don’t think they need to explain it. And no Hamas is not every refugee. No matter what your bigoted sources want everyone to believe.
Also this attempt to water down Genocide with a border raid is fucking ridiculous. It makes you look ridiculous and invalidates any concept of Genocide you want to share.
And Israel controls the other 9/10ths of that border. You don’t get to offload your responsibility to protect civilians in the combat area to a third party.
If Israel, as stated by the pm himself and members of the war cabinet , gets the hostages and dismantles hammas then it would allow to form a better governing body for Gaza which more humane and more Palestinian focused than killing jews and digging tunnels.
Israel, contrary to popular belief isnt going to erase gaza out of the earth even when hammas is eradicated. Israel could erase gaza if they wanted. They choose not to in order to save Palestinian civilian lives.
Could have just finished your sentence there. They only care about the hostages for political optics and they know as well as anyone that you don’t stop terrorism just by killing the leaders. Their goal is to kill or displace as many Gazans as possible and then take over the area and the fossil gas on the coast. Everything else is just pretense.
Civilian casualties are a by product of war.
Israel are killing TWICE as many civilians as Hamas, though, by their own admission. They refuse to prove it though, so it’s probably much worse in reality. That’s not a by-product. That’s genocide.
This war won’t end until the objectives have been accomplished.
Unless the West stops them, you’re right about that, even as you’re completely wrong about what the actual objectives are.
Of course it would all be over if Hamas surrendered,
First of all it wouldn’t. Second of all, their radical ideology makes surrender impossible.
the internet meme version of “genocide” Israel is accused of
These are the actual criteria as per the genocide convention, for it to qualify as a genocide:
any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group; ✅️
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; ✅️
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; ✅️
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; ✅️
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. ❓️
So as you see, it’s not a meme. By the official and only pertinent definition of genocide, the Israeli government IS committing genocide.
They only care about the hostages for political optics and they know as well as anyone that you don’t stop terrorism just by killing the leaders.
You could stop right there. You consider getting people out of a situation where they’re being raped and tortured to be about optics. That’s a real psychopath way of thinking about things.
Only a psychopath would be so incapable of empathy that you could only consider this situation by considering from a mindset of only thinking about optics.
Unless the West stops them, you’re right about that, even as you’re completely wrong about what the actual objectives are.
And there’s the goal of this whole thing isn’t it? Hamas went into villages, brutally murdered men, women and children, to create a conflict. They took hostages to force a ground campaign which would cause a lot of civilian casualties. The goal? To turn the west against Israel.
But it didn’t seem to work did it? You might want to crack open a history book, the Hamas strategy is a fascist strategy. A fascist strategy that involves killing Jews. People in the west have seen this before.
Sure you got some young people to jump onboard. It’s sad how bad history education is now.
But many people see Gaza and remember what German cities looked like after their country was run by psychopaths that killed Jews. Western countries aren’t going to intervene when Israel is doing the same things to destroy Hamas that we did to destroy the Nazis. It’s only young people that are ignorant of history that Hamas can influence.
But young people tend not to vote and attention spans are very short. Civilian casualties are dropping in Gaza as Hamas is being diminished. How is it possible that civilian casualties are decreasing when there’s fewer Hamas strongmen to protect the Palestinian people from a genocidal army? Because Hamas lied to you about Israel committing genocide. Accuse the other side of the things you’re guilty of.
If Taylor Swift tells her fans to vote for Biden it will be a bigger factor in the voting decisions of young people (who generally don’t vote) than all the propaganda that Hamas with the support of Iranian troll farms can put out. Older generations generally think the guys that are murdering Jews are the bad guys. Also those Iranian troll farms really don’t want Trump to win.
All that Hamas has accomplished in terms of influencing the west is increasing the number of antisemitic attacks on synagogues and jewish businesses. Which doesn’t increase support for their cause in the west.
I wish I’d taken your advice and stopped reading. The rest is just a garbage pile of strawmen, ad hominems and other bad faith arguments. Not a word of it was anything but spin, distortion and pure fabrication.
I think people relate the Palestinian movement as being something like BLM or various indigenous rights movements. “Apartheid state!” and all that. They’re not thinking about the distinction that BLM is a non-violent movement. The indigenous rights movements they’re familiar with are non-violent movements. The Palestinian movement is most certainly not a non-violent movement. But they’re non-violent and want so much for the rest of that movement to be non-violent they ignore the violence that others in the movement commit.
I mean I’d support the Palestinian cause if it were a non-violent resistance campaign. But it’s not. When people choose violence the only thing that matters is which side has a greater capability to exercise violence on the other. I’m no military expert, but it seems to me Israel has a greater capability in that regard. So what’s the point? Palestinians would achieve a lot more with non-violent resistance and negotiating. They just keep losing when they use violence. The only reason to continue to be violent towards Israel is to maintain a perpetual cycle of violence that keeps psychopaths like Hamas in power.
I really don’t understand why the line of “conquered land” is drawn at Israel, but that’s just the way it is.
Most people live in conquered land. There’s very little land on Earth that hasn’t been conquered at some point in history. Basically just a few isolated islands in the middle of the ocean.
No one wants to be accused of being a criminal for living where they were born. But they feel upset about the wrongdoings of the past. To reconcile these to conflicting emotions people decide to be most angry over the land that was most recently conquered. That somehow makes it more acceptable to be angry at other people for being born on conquered land while they’re living on conquered land themselves. Since they’re angry other at people for being born on conquered land, they’ve proven they care about the bad things in history enough they can live guilt free on conquered land themselves. Maybe also rename a sports team so it no longer references an indigenous group or something. Whatever it takes to not feel guilt.
It’s all emotion so it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense.
And there’s the thing where a reporter have a conversation with an elderly Palestinian person where that person pulls out a deed or a key to a house that they claim proves they used to live in Ashkelon. But someone else has lived on that same land their whole life. So that’s a problem. But what people fail to recognize is that after October 7, right of return isn’t going to happen this generation. Sure anything is possible with enough time, but with enough time there will be no more Palestinians with deeds and keys claiming to have lived in Ashkelon.
So Hamas destroyed the possibility of a right of return. The dream of a Palestinian state is on life support now. But the Palestinian movement seems incapable of separating itself from Hamas.
So it’s devolved into screaming on the internet and raw emotion. And nothing creates emotions like the feeling that you’re is complicit in something horrible. If you accuse Israel of genocide loudly enough, then maybe no one is going to talk about how you supported a cause that actually committed genocide.
This argument that Palestinians should be peaceful when confronted with literal genocide and ethnic cleansing is so fucking dumb. Would you say this to the people involved in the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
When you’re facing a superior military force, non-violent resistance is the only rational course of action.
Would you say this to the people involved in the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
I might say to those people that victory is impossible and their survival is unlikely. But I wouldn’t have to because they already knew that. Their goal was to not to allow the Nazis choose the time and place of their deaths. Because there was actual genocide happening.
Nobody called for a ceasefire with Germany to stop the genocide from happening. Because when it’s actual genocide, it can happen when there isn’t an active conflict between armed combatants.
People calling for a ceasefire now are people that don’t actually believe that a genocide is happening. The holocaust didn’t end with a ceasefire. It ended when the Nazis were destroyed.
Hamas committed genocide on October 7. They set the stage for this conflict and put Palestinian civilians in between them and the IDF. To them life has no value other than as a propaganda tool. Future genocide is possible if Hamas continues to exist. Future Palestinian casualties are likely as long as Hamas continues to exist. They need to be destroyed like the Nazis were to prevent genocide from happening in the future.
Look at the photos of German cities at the end of WWII. Now look at photos of Gaza now. Do you see the similarity?
Your comparison to events of WWII don’t exactly make the case you think it does. But that’s how it is with people that only understand history from the context of it being used for propaganda.
Israel isn’t going to stop until they free the hostages and capture or (more likely kill) Yahya Sinwar.
Civilian casualties are a by product of war. This war won’t end until the objectives have been accomplished.
Would you prefer Israel use the most accurate munitions possible when fighting in an urban combat scenario or less accurate weapons. Less accurate weapons means more civilian casualties.
Of course it would all be over if Hamas surrendered, odd how no one is calling for a group that committed actual genocide (rather than the internet meme version of “genocide” Israel is accused of) to surrender and face justice. If that happened the war would be over and there would be no more civilian casualties. But internet memes is more important than reality to a lot of people I guess.
israel won’t stop until they’ve ethnically cleansed all of Gaza and the West Bank. Whether they do it through genocide or forced emigration or a combination of the two, that is the real objective. Hamas is israel’s #1 asset in this mission since it gives them the excuse and idiots actually believe this excuse.
Forced emigration is a valid part of genocide. I mean don’t get me wrong the killing is far worse but it’s in the definition.
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Israel can stop the famine right now, just by letting aid in or civilians out. It’s not even about the 2,000 pound bombs anymore. That was abhorrent. This is systemic murder.
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That’s not how reality works. And we all agreed that starving entire populations to death as a collective form of punishment is illegal a long long time ago now. We even hung some people for it in a place called Nuremberg.
Look at a map. Egypt controls a border with Gaza. Egypt could allow refugees into Egypt, so why don’t they? Egypt is controlling the flow of aid into Gaza. Why isn’t Egypt allowing more aid in?
But the goal isn’t to create hatred against Egypt is it? The goal isn’t to criticize the UN for incompetence either. The goal is to create hatred toward Israel, and all facts that don’t further this goal are ignored. Because it’s a propaganda campaign.
Israel is literally committing genocide and ethnic cleansing on the daily. Even before October 7th, they have been illegally settling for decades. There are numerous government ministers and Knesset members that have called publicly for said genocide and ethnic cleansing. Some have said there is no such thing as a Palestinian civilian. Some were giving speeches at a rally with an org that was planning how to re-establish settlements in Gaza.
The onus should not be on Egypt to take in refugees. The onus should be on Israel to stop its genocidal actions and ethnic cleansing campaign. You know… The thing that’s causing the Palestinians to be in a position where they would need to flee to Egypt in the first place.
The onus should be on Hamas to surrender and face justice for what they did on October 7. But since everyone gives them a free pass on violence towards Jews this necessitated a war which Hamas set up to maximize civilian casualties. Because it’s been an effective propaganda tool for them.
So what have they learned from October 7? People like you will look the other way and give them support. Oh you’ll say you don’t support Hamas, but only when pressed. But the default behaviour is to look the other way on their violent actions, even when they go into villages and massacre everyone they can find.
The success of Hamas in committing a genocidal act and converting it into sympathy for them while created hatred towards the people they massacred means there is no reason for them to not try to do it again. This is why Hamas needs to be destroyed. The propaganda success they’ve had from October 7 incentivizes them to do it again. A propaganda campaign you’re a part, whether you know it or not.
Egypt isn’t taking in refugees because they understand what Hamas is. They don’t want these psychopaths to be within their borders and Hamas hides within the civilian population. So there’s no way for Egypt to allow in refugees without also allowing in Hamas, which they don’t want. You’re ignoring this like you’re ignoring the genocidal acts of Hamas because it’s inconvenient to your narrative. You need to be hyper-focussed on hating Israel or the whole thing falls apart, doesn’t it?
If you were capable of really considering what Hamas is, what they’ve done you wouldn’t be thinking the way you do. But hatred is the kind of thing that doesn’t allow you to think about anything other than your enemy. Right?
Not supporting Terrorism is the default position dude. Nobody needs to be pressed, they just don’t think they need to explain it. And no Hamas is not every refugee. No matter what your bigoted sources want everyone to believe.
Also this attempt to water down Genocide with a border raid is fucking ridiculous. It makes you look ridiculous and invalidates any concept of Genocide you want to share.
if it’s just a propaganda campaign, Israel can win by ending the blockade and shipping in supplies instead of shooting people.
And Israel controls the other 9/10ths of that border. You don’t get to offload your responsibility to protect civilians in the combat area to a third party.
Hamas is fucking terrible. What they did was terrible. What Israel is currently doing in retaliation is terrible.
I would love it if Hamas surrendered if that immediately stopped all the killing. They won’t though.
1700+ dead. 250 hostages, in a country of 9+ million people.
27000+ dead, in a small strip of land that had 2+ million people.
It’s beyond fucking retribution at this point.
I would like to know what you think Israel would do if they accomplish their objectives?
If Israel, as stated by the pm himself and members of the war cabinet , gets the hostages and dismantles hammas then it would allow to form a better governing body for Gaza which more humane and more Palestinian focused than killing jews and digging tunnels.
Israel, contrary to popular belief isnt going to erase gaza out of the earth even when hammas is eradicated. Israel could erase gaza if they wanted. They choose not to in order to save Palestinian civilian lives.
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Could have just finished your sentence there. They only care about the hostages for political optics and they know as well as anyone that you don’t stop terrorism just by killing the leaders. Their goal is to kill or displace as many Gazans as possible and then take over the area and the fossil gas on the coast. Everything else is just pretense.
Israel are killing TWICE as many civilians as Hamas, though, by their own admission. They refuse to prove it though, so it’s probably much worse in reality. That’s not a by-product. That’s genocide.
Unless the West stops them, you’re right about that, even as you’re completely wrong about what the actual objectives are.
First of all it wouldn’t. Second of all, their radical ideology makes surrender impossible.
These are the actual criteria as per the genocide convention, for it to qualify as a genocide:
any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
So as you see, it’s not a meme. By the official and only pertinent definition of genocide, the Israeli government IS committing genocide.
You could stop right there. You consider getting people out of a situation where they’re being raped and tortured to be about optics. That’s a real psychopath way of thinking about things.
Only a psychopath would be so incapable of empathy that you could only consider this situation by considering from a mindset of only thinking about optics.
And there’s the goal of this whole thing isn’t it? Hamas went into villages, brutally murdered men, women and children, to create a conflict. They took hostages to force a ground campaign which would cause a lot of civilian casualties. The goal? To turn the west against Israel.
But it didn’t seem to work did it? You might want to crack open a history book, the Hamas strategy is a fascist strategy. A fascist strategy that involves killing Jews. People in the west have seen this before.
Sure you got some young people to jump onboard. It’s sad how bad history education is now.
But many people see Gaza and remember what German cities looked like after their country was run by psychopaths that killed Jews. Western countries aren’t going to intervene when Israel is doing the same things to destroy Hamas that we did to destroy the Nazis. It’s only young people that are ignorant of history that Hamas can influence.
But young people tend not to vote and attention spans are very short. Civilian casualties are dropping in Gaza as Hamas is being diminished. How is it possible that civilian casualties are decreasing when there’s fewer Hamas strongmen to protect the Palestinian people from a genocidal army? Because Hamas lied to you about Israel committing genocide. Accuse the other side of the things you’re guilty of.
If Taylor Swift tells her fans to vote for Biden it will be a bigger factor in the voting decisions of young people (who generally don’t vote) than all the propaganda that Hamas with the support of Iranian troll farms can put out. Older generations generally think the guys that are murdering Jews are the bad guys. Also those Iranian troll farms really don’t want Trump to win.
All that Hamas has accomplished in terms of influencing the west is increasing the number of antisemitic attacks on synagogues and jewish businesses. Which doesn’t increase support for their cause in the west.
I wish I’d taken your advice and stopped reading. The rest is just a garbage pile of strawmen, ad hominems and other bad faith arguments. Not a word of it was anything but spin, distortion and pure fabrication.
They have killed more civilians than Hamas has members.
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No, peoole don’t simply pick one side as correct. Hamas was wrong. Israel is also wrong.
I think people relate the Palestinian movement as being something like BLM or various indigenous rights movements. “Apartheid state!” and all that. They’re not thinking about the distinction that BLM is a non-violent movement. The indigenous rights movements they’re familiar with are non-violent movements. The Palestinian movement is most certainly not a non-violent movement. But they’re non-violent and want so much for the rest of that movement to be non-violent they ignore the violence that others in the movement commit.
I mean I’d support the Palestinian cause if it were a non-violent resistance campaign. But it’s not. When people choose violence the only thing that matters is which side has a greater capability to exercise violence on the other. I’m no military expert, but it seems to me Israel has a greater capability in that regard. So what’s the point? Palestinians would achieve a lot more with non-violent resistance and negotiating. They just keep losing when they use violence. The only reason to continue to be violent towards Israel is to maintain a perpetual cycle of violence that keeps psychopaths like Hamas in power.
Most people live in conquered land. There’s very little land on Earth that hasn’t been conquered at some point in history. Basically just a few isolated islands in the middle of the ocean.
No one wants to be accused of being a criminal for living where they were born. But they feel upset about the wrongdoings of the past. To reconcile these to conflicting emotions people decide to be most angry over the land that was most recently conquered. That somehow makes it more acceptable to be angry at other people for being born on conquered land while they’re living on conquered land themselves. Since they’re angry other at people for being born on conquered land, they’ve proven they care about the bad things in history enough they can live guilt free on conquered land themselves. Maybe also rename a sports team so it no longer references an indigenous group or something. Whatever it takes to not feel guilt.
It’s all emotion so it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense.
And there’s the thing where a reporter have a conversation with an elderly Palestinian person where that person pulls out a deed or a key to a house that they claim proves they used to live in Ashkelon. But someone else has lived on that same land their whole life. So that’s a problem. But what people fail to recognize is that after October 7, right of return isn’t going to happen this generation. Sure anything is possible with enough time, but with enough time there will be no more Palestinians with deeds and keys claiming to have lived in Ashkelon.
So Hamas destroyed the possibility of a right of return. The dream of a Palestinian state is on life support now. But the Palestinian movement seems incapable of separating itself from Hamas.
So it’s devolved into screaming on the internet and raw emotion. And nothing creates emotions like the feeling that you’re is complicit in something horrible. If you accuse Israel of genocide loudly enough, then maybe no one is going to talk about how you supported a cause that actually committed genocide.
This argument that Palestinians should be peaceful when confronted with literal genocide and ethnic cleansing is so fucking dumb. Would you say this to the people involved in the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
When you’re facing a superior military force, non-violent resistance is the only rational course of action.
I might say to those people that victory is impossible and their survival is unlikely. But I wouldn’t have to because they already knew that. Their goal was to not to allow the Nazis choose the time and place of their deaths. Because there was actual genocide happening.
Nobody called for a ceasefire with Germany to stop the genocide from happening. Because when it’s actual genocide, it can happen when there isn’t an active conflict between armed combatants.
People calling for a ceasefire now are people that don’t actually believe that a genocide is happening. The holocaust didn’t end with a ceasefire. It ended when the Nazis were destroyed.
Hamas committed genocide on October 7. They set the stage for this conflict and put Palestinian civilians in between them and the IDF. To them life has no value other than as a propaganda tool. Future genocide is possible if Hamas continues to exist. Future Palestinian casualties are likely as long as Hamas continues to exist. They need to be destroyed like the Nazis were to prevent genocide from happening in the future.
Look at the photos of German cities at the end of WWII. Now look at photos of Gaza now. Do you see the similarity?
Your comparison to events of WWII don’t exactly make the case you think it does. But that’s how it is with people that only understand history from the context of it being used for propaganda.
this is all double speak and apartheid apologia.