Well there’s the time he lobbied Congress to take away the rights of striking railway workers.
And then there’s the fact that he circumvented normal procedures to expedite weapons sales to Israel twice in December alone.
That’s just two of many examples of him being on the side of the rich and powerful and against regular people every time there’s conflict between the two groups.
I guess you’d prefer a reality where he takes the fall for the consequences of the strike, Republicans win, and Israel is thrown under the bus, providing an example to our other allies that we will do the same to them as soon as it’s politically convenient. Brilliant politics.
You said he got the unions “everything they wanted”. They wanted 15 sick days so I’ll wait for you to post a source saying every rail worker in all 12 unions now has 15 sick days. Or you can admit saying he got them “everything they wanted” is a lie.
He did no such thing. That was just his bullshit excuse. The crisis from the next major derailment, one that could happen anywhere, including in major metropolitan areas, will likely be much worse than anything caused by upholding the rights of striking workers.
stand by our international allies in a crisis
Yeah, when those allies are operating an apartheid regime committing genocide, it’s not a good thing to pretend that automatically taking their side is the principled thing to do. The crisis is of their own making and US support in the form of weapons and funding is making it worse, not better.
Republicans win, and Israel is thrown under the bus
Bullshit. Republicans are MORE staunchly in favor of the Israeli government, being fellow fascists.
we will do the same to them as soon as it’s politically convenient
Yeah, because not enabling genocide by an apartheid regime is all about convenience! Gtfo with that bullshit!
You seem to be under the impression that the strike was about safety, it was not. It was about sick days.
Israel is neither genocidal nor an apartheid state, this is total hyperbole, and I’m very glad the Biden administration does not share your warped redefinitions of these terms. Biden is now putting sanctions on those who go too far in Israel, which I appreciate. I hope he goes after their right wing politicians next.
The comment I was responding to wanted Biden to throw Israel under the bus, not the Republicans that would replace him due to the financial consequences of a national rail strike.
Sick days (and other PTO) is a safety issue. Forcing employees to come in while sick or working them to the bone with no breaks makes for an unsafe working environment. When workers are tired or sick, they’re more prone to mistakes.
Those aren’t my definitions. They are those of the Genocide Convention and South African Apartheid survivors.
Biden is now putting sanctions on those who go too far in Israel
Nope. He’s frozen assets of a handful of civilian murderers from the West Bank, but is still supporting the Israeli government genocide with weapons, funding and lying about the extent of their atrocities.
The comment I was responding to wanted Biden to throw Israel under the bus
Israel IS the bus and he’s throwing his own re-election prospects under it. He’s already alienated significant portions of crucial battleground states like Michigan and he’s hemorrhaging support from every voter who doesn’t consider massacring civilians the cost of doing business.
the Republicans that would replace him due to the financial consequences of a national rail strike.
Again, a purely fictional hypothetical invented to excuse the ongoing gross violations of labor rights by some of his favorite owner donors.
I swear you Biden stans are just as blind to the many faults of your Dear Leader as the Trump cult sometimes 🤦
Israel has not been found guilty of violating either statute, keep repeating it like a mantra but it doesn’t make it any more true. 21% of Israel’s population is Arab/Palestinian and they have full legal citizenship rights. Pretty odd for an, “apartheid state.” Israel is not attempting to destroy Palestinians in whole or in part, they are responding to an attack by a belligerent nation and going to great lengths to select legal targets in response even if they have significant collateral damage. It’s clear this is about self-defense and not racial based punishment, despite your uncharitable portrayal.
I swear you Biden stans are just as blind to the many faults of your Dear Leader as the Trump cult sometimes 🤦
Biden is the best president we’ve had in a long time and I’m tired of Hamas stans criticizing him for supporting our allies against unprovoked terrorist attacks. Supporting our allies in a time of crisis is the right thing to do.
Israel has not been found guilty of violating either statute
Because until now the US has vetoed every attempt at holding them accountable and the current ICJ case is still ongoing. The lack of a conviction doesn’t invalidate painfully obvious reality.
eep repeating it like a mantra but it doesn’t make it any more true
Could say the exact same thing about your denials. Difference would be that I’d be basing it on objective reality rather than lies from pro-Israel outlets such as NYT and Times of Israel.
they are responding to an attack by a belligerent nation
No, they are responding to a terrorist attack in a wildly disproportionate manner.
going to great lengths to select legal targets in response
Nope. They’re notorious for lying about the legitimacy of targets. There’s no fully functional hospitals left in Gaza because that’s what the Israeli government wanted, not because there were Hamas “fighters” hidden in or under every single one like the IDF keeps claiming.
even if they have significant collateral damage.
You mean CAUSE, right? Because by their own official estimate, they kill twice as many civilians as Hamas and since they refuse to share the data, it’s probably much worse than even that.
It’s clear this is about self-defense
Are you fucking drunk? On other mind-altering substances? Because you can’t be this gullible sober and still function.
Unless of course you’re deliberately lying, which is very likely.
Biden is the best president we’ve had in a long time
Second-best since Carter, but that’s still an awfully low bar since they’ve all been really baf in each their own way and also the shared way of being beholden to billionaires and their corporations.
Hamas stans
Let me be absolutely clear: I abhor all terrorism by all terrorists, including Hamas. You don’t have to be on their side to abhor genocide.
criticizing him for supporting our allies
Genocidal apartheid state regimes do not make for worthy allies.
against unprovoked terrorist attacks.
I’m not saying that the attacks were in any way justified or excusable, but to call them unprovoked is the height of ideological blindness! Are you SURE you’re not drunk or high right now?
Supporting our allies in a time of crisis is the right thing to do.
Not when said crisis is of the making of said allies and their crimes against humanity.
Yeah, the Hamas stans are basically indistinguishable from the MAGAs now. They just scream some made up shit they saw from their social media feeds over and over. They even subscribe to many of the same conspiracy theories as the MAGAs about the media being manipulated by the Jews. Though the MAGAs still tend to use code wards like “Globalists” but it’s ultimately the same delusional conspiracy theories.
It’s really sad how people who are well aware of the manipulations the Trump MAGA movement have used to get people to go down weird rabbit holes they can’t escape from, but then jumped down a rabbit hole right next to it that led to basically the same place. “Joe Biden is evil, the media is controlled by the Jews and is lying to everyone, only my social media feed tells me the truth.” It’s bizarre how people can’t step back for a moment and consider what they’re doing.
I mean Hamas is a blood and soil (from the river to the sea!) movement, that’s anti-democracy, constantly goes on about victimization, constantly talks about restoring past greatness that was taken away by another ethnic group. They have demonstrated a willingness to use violence to maintain power.
They tick all the same boxes as the MAGAs. Might be because they’re both fascist movements.
I’m always involved in conversations with the “Free Palestine” crowd and the conversations go exactly the same way as with MAGAs. debating whether or not the news can be trusted, trying to pierce through the paranoid conspiracy theories, “both sides” logic, and dog whistles to get to the truth. Ultimately conversations with MAGAs devolve into the MAGA making overt homophobic/transphobic/racist statements. With the Hamas supporters it devolves into overt antisemitism.
Hell, yesterday there was someone willing to look the other way on gay people being crucified in Yemen because it was distracting from hating Israel. This person said they were part of the LBGTQ+ community.
Some real batshit crazy shit coming from both the MAGAs and Hamas fans.
These groups use the same logic (if you can call it that), they just have different groups that they target their hatred towards. It’s all about maintaining the righteous anger and rejecting anything that doesn’t fit the narrative.
Those striking railway workers eventually got their demands for sick leave met in their contracts with continued support from the Biden Administration AND our national economy didn’t grind to a halt
"We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.
Yeah, I’m not really sure that’s the point. The fact that the only changes that are allowed to get through are what the president allows is disheartening. The fact is, these workers should have been able to strike on their own terms without being shut down. What happens with a more hostile leader? What Biden did was defang the Union in that instance. Threw them a bone afterward, sure, but he defanged them.
That’s how Biden works! The corporate media is against Biden and it shows to those who can see. It’s tough getting the real news and that’s a massive problem for this country.
They got a fraction of what they were asking for and they weren’t even asking for much. Their working conditions are still so awful that it’s only a question of time before the next major derailment disaster like the one in Ohio happens.
Next time, it might happen in a major metropolitan area, in which case many will die and the economy will suffer a lot worse than not trampling on their rights would have.
And even the tiny concessions they DID get in spite of Biden convincing congress to make them fight oligarchic railway companies without their best weapon, strike actions, was due to NLRB efforts with no help from Corporate Joe.
The strike threat was about paid sick leave, it wasn’t about railroad safety. Safety is an important issue too, but every single source from the time, even directly from the unions, explicitly discussed only paid sick leave. In that sense they got their demand met completely
It was about sick leave and improving the working conditions that are so awful that they’re literally making workers sick and trains less safe.
every single source from the time, even directly from the unions, explicitly discussed only paid sick leave
That’s simply not true. That’s the MSM and party narrative, but it isn’t the truth. Outlets less intertwined with the political establishment such as The Intercept and The Nation could have informed you better, had you bothered to look beyond the bubble.
in that sense they got their demand met completely
You mean in that entirely fictional sense? To quote the Nation piece:
this was never just a conflict over the number of paid sick days. About 115,000 workers represented by 13 separate craft unions, who keep 40 percent of the nation’s freight moving, got screwed. The coalition of interests that did the screwing includes: the executive boards of the seven class-1 carriers, most of Congress, and the president.
I love that railroad Striker story because it just makes identifying people online so easy. Because whenever people online complain about it it’s either one or two things, it’s either they’re completely ignorant of this actual scenario and what actually happened or they’re just being intellectually dishonest on purpose.
I would rephrase the title to say “Also” and not “Instead”. Biden did reform immigration detention. He also moved to more private detention centers. There are no longer children in cages, families being separated, or families being detained at all.
If the bar is low, its bc of the past 50+ years of neoliberal politics. Its much easier to burn systems to the ground a la trump than it is to build new ones from scratch or improve existing systems.
Complaining about the bar being too low doesnt get it any higher, especially if ones vote or lack thereof goes towards helping the fascist win.
He’s still against universal healthcare. I am tired of folks beating people for wanting candidates that are more electable than Biden running instead of him. Universal healthcare polls well on the right and left.
That one issue tells you everything you need to know about him, he sides with corporate lobbyists before material needs of the people.
Remember how much political capital Obama had to spend just to get the ACA passed, and even then just barely? I would love universal healthcare but this probably isn’t the best time to push for it, at least not until fascism is defeated and Democrats have the numbers. The president isn’t a genie who can just make things like this happen unilaterally. The public may support it but Republicans do not.
Pushing for legislation that is a non-starter when we are barely able to pass a budget to keep the government running isn’t a great strategy. Political capital needs to be spent where it is most effective, even if that means putting good legislation that isn’t viable on the back burner from time to time.
I hope we get universal healthcare sooner rather than later, but our problems are a little more existential right now. They might elect the guy who wants to end democracy. Sometimes we must compromise and do what is viable rather than what is desired. The good should not be sacrificed in pursuit of the perfect.
People not getting healthcare right now, is just as existential. Why are we not deserving of passing that? The time to fight for things like that is now. I’m not saying we shouldn’t vote against Trump, we are all saying it is best to have a healthy conversation about who would be a better candidate overall.
Every poll I can find has the large majority of Republicans opposing single payer health care. Some are in favor of “universal health care” but that being a mix of public and private similar to what the afordable* care act with the individual mandate did.
Isn’t hard to find, because it never is in contention. Republicans in power, Democrats in power, want the status quo because of the lobby of pharma, healthcare insurance, and corporate control over our bodies. Those in the public on the right and left support government paid healthcare. https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx
Oh OK, just a vast majority of Americans and a growing subset of republicans. So why aren’t the democrats choosing a candidate that supports this again?
Thanks, I’m in my 50s. I remember. I also remember the electability politics used in that election on the democratic side by corporate media to force a right of center candidate. He also didn’t beat any one in primaries in this election, which is a different election.
You have a lot of ad hominem and poorly backed up arguments. Electability is a term that was used a ton by corporate media to give Biden an edge over candidates that polled better than him in hypothetical general elections with Trump. It is fact. You can look it up but you don’t want to learn. Goodbye.
Sounds like you read the newspapers but that’s not where the real news is at. Corporations own the news. Dig deeper, a lot deeper. Biden isn’t as bad as the MSM wants you to believe.
You’re seriously saying that the MSM, most of which enjoys a symbiotic relationship with the DNC are portraying Biden as WORSE than he really is??
It’s because I consume media from OUTSIDE of the MSM bubble that I know he’s not anywhere near as great as the likes of Politico and NYT keep pretending.
As a Biden supporter, I have to assume that all the lies and bullshit about him that have infected the (almost exclusively) young Democrats today is coming from Tiktok or Instagram or some other social media apo I don’t have.
It’s because I consume media from OUTSIDE of the MSM bubble that I know he’s not anywhere near as great as the likes of Politico and NYT keep pretending.
This supports that theory.
Do you idiots not see the parallels between you and MAGA? It’s the same exact playbook! “Don’t trust the MSM”, “do your research”, “get angry about xyz”
I have to assume that all the lies and bullshit about him that have infected the (almost exclusively) young Democrats today is coming from Tiktok or Instagram or some other social media apo I don’t have.
I’m 41 and don’t use any social media, unless Lemmy counts.
This supports that theory.
Nope. I was referring to sources such as The Intercept, The Nation and (for news about the Gaza genocide) Haaretz.
Not MSM ≠ not reliable news
Do you idiots not see the parallels between you and MAGA? It’s the same exact playbook!
Says the guy convinced that there’s no good reason not to worship the president formerly known as The Senator From MBNA 🙄
Don’t trust the MSM", “do your research”, “get angry about xyz”
Not trusting the MSM because they’re a billionaire-owned tool of the oppressive establishment that often lies to further such narratives as “the more cops the less crime” and “Israel’s just defending itself” ≠ not trusting them because they don’t lie ENOUGH like the MAGA cult.
My research relies on trusting the expertise of those who have proven themselves reliable. The maga “research” starts with doing everything but that.
I get angry about things that are wrong, such as everything the maga cult stands for and the lies of both them and the corrupt neoliberal elite that you’re simping for. They get angry at whichever imagined issue their handlers tell them to be angry about.
TL;DR: Horse shoe theory is bullshit made up by ideologically challenged liberals to falsely smear diametrically opposed opponents as identical.
Fish hook theory is much closer to reality, especially when it comes to propaganda.
You don’t tend to get much of that when dealing with people who can’t tell diametrically opposite ideologies apart and think that makes them the adults in the room 😄
Great takes. More bitching about the nonfascist of the election while ignoring the tidal wave of disinfo looking to plant a literal russian stooge in the strongest office in the world.
Bystanders, please consider that lemmy is infilitrated just as other social media is. Those in here trying to pretend this is not a social media site, or that this place hasnt been infected with bad faith actors are more than anything trying to get u to drop ur guard and take their deculturalizing comments to heart without a fight.
The kgb bragged about infiltrating our social fabric back in the 80s. It doesn’t take much to see them hiding in the shadows here today.
Still ignoring my points there, while deflecting with “haha look at this crazy here calling me out.” And then u accuse me of hero worship, a well known problem on the right, even if ive done no such thing. A very clever method of making both sides here look equally crazy to the bystanders. To them, i say:
I got banned in World News for calling out russian shills spreading clear kremlin propaganda. This place isnt safe, and when months from now ur leftist spaces do nothing but circlejerk over silly slogans and nonvoting, remember this comment, and ask yourself who stands to benefit from such a culture?
Most mature leftists are not ones to disparage u from voting so much as encourage u to take other forms of direct action. You will not have the option for either enable if this capitalist hellscape goes full fascist, and i assure u, US foreign policy being interventionist for 80 years is NOT the definition of fascism.
See this is the shit that supports horseshoe theory. Far-left and far-right, you’re all about idolarity and worship and dictatorships and changing the world by force. Moderates don’t believe in that shit. We don’t worship anyone. You’re just mad because your far right counterparts have a strongman to rally around and you currently don’t. But you do crave one.
Not trusting the MSM because they’re a billionaire-owned tool of the oppressive establishment that often lies to further such narratives as “the more cops the less crime” and “Israel’s just defending itself” ≠ not trusting them because they don’t lie ENOUGH like the MAGA cult.
It’s not about the “why”, it’s about the end result. You’ve been manipulated to be paranoid and angry, just like them. Of course, the methods of manipulation were a little different but you ended up in the same place.
(and let me give a disclaimer here: “both sides” arguments is just as terrible as your current left-wing MAGA shit. The far left like you are a sliver of the Democrats, but what I call the far right are actually in control of the Republicans. You spout absurd shit and it’s frustrating but at the end of the day largely irrelevant. MAGA spouts absurd shit and it’s frightening, because they have the power to turn it into absurd actions. Just because I equate the far right and far left in terms of stupidity and susceptibility to propaganda, does not mean I equate them in terms of dangerousness. Even worst case scenario, the average tankie’s utopia is better than the average MAGA utopia.)
See this is the shit that supports horseshoe theory. Far-left and far-right, you’re all about idolarity and worship and dictatorships and changing the world by force. Moderates don’t believe in that shit. We don’t worship anyone. You’re just mad because your far right counterparts have a strongman to rally around and you currently don’t. But you do crave one.
Someone never heard of the authoritarianism axis of the political compass…
You’re pretty close when it comes to tankies, who are far left authoritarians, but less authoritarian people exist on the left too.
Personally my stance vary from social democrat to almost anarchist depending on the subject, but always significantly less authoritarian than the DNC and the so-called moderates (actually center-right to right wing) who have no ideology except “my team good, everyone else other team”.
I’m a pacifist, I know that ACAB and I believe that the main purpose of government is to protect people from the tyranny of the powerful. So no, I don’t want “my side” to have a fucking strawman committing atrocities. Biden actively supporting some of those is plenty bad enough.
You’ve been manipulated to be paranoid and angry, just like them. Of course, the methods of manipulation were a little different but you ended up in the same place.
Another steaming pile of horse shoe horse shit.
I’m not paranoid and I’m not angry about anywhere near the same things as the fascists are. That you can’t see two people angry at the same person without automatically assuming that their opinions and reasons for having them are both identical, that’s a you being an idiot problem.
“both sides” arguments is just as terrible as your current left-wing MAGA shit.
Complaining about both sidesism being terrible while literally says that both of the sides that disagree with you are identical must be some kind of record! Surely you must be putting me on! Nobody can have THAT little self-awareness! 🤦
Anyways, I’ve officially had enough of your delusions. Have the day you deserve.
Some tropes are based in truth and the one about the MSM consisting of billionaire-owned outlets that unquestioningly support either neoliberalism (Politico, MSDNC, NYT etc) or fascism (Faux News, Breitbart, WSJ editorials etc) is one of them.
Well there’s the time he lobbied Congress to take away the rights of striking railway workers.
And then there’s the fact that he circumvented normal procedures to expedite weapons sales to Israel twice in December alone.
That’s just two of many examples of him being on the side of the rich and powerful and against regular people every time there’s conflict between the two groups.
How dare he… checks notes… prevent a national financial crisis but still worked to get the unions everything they wanted, and stand by our international allies in a crisis even when Congress won’t.
I guess you’d prefer a reality where he takes the fall for the consequences of the strike, Republicans win, and Israel is thrown under the bus, providing an example to our other allies that we will do the same to them as soon as it’s politically convenient. Brilliant politics.
undermining the autonomy of workers to choose to strike is bad.
What are you, some kinda big mouth Co- . . . oh . . . . sorry. Carry on.
You said he got the unions “everything they wanted”. They wanted 15 sick days so I’ll wait for you to post a source saying every rail worker in all 12 unions now has 15 sick days. Or you can admit saying he got them “everything they wanted” is a lie.
He did no such thing. That was just his bullshit excuse. The crisis from the next major derailment, one that could happen anywhere, including in major metropolitan areas, will likely be much worse than anything caused by upholding the rights of striking workers.
Yeah, when those allies are operating an apartheid regime committing genocide, it’s not a good thing to pretend that automatically taking their side is the principled thing to do. The crisis is of their own making and US support in the form of weapons and funding is making it worse, not better.
Bullshit. Republicans are MORE staunchly in favor of the Israeli government, being fellow fascists.
Yeah, because not enabling genocide by an apartheid regime is all about convenience! Gtfo with that bullshit!
Sick days (and other PTO) is a safety issue. Forcing employees to come in while sick or working them to the bone with no breaks makes for an unsafe working environment. When workers are tired or sick, they’re more prone to mistakes.
It was about both. You can repeat your narrative as many times as you want, doesn’t change the fact that you’re lying.
False. It’s by definition a case of both.
Wrong again.
Those aren’t my definitions. They are those of the Genocide Convention and South African Apartheid survivors.
Nope. He’s frozen assets of a handful of civilian murderers from the West Bank, but is still supporting the Israeli government genocide with weapons, funding and lying about the extent of their atrocities.
Israel IS the bus and he’s throwing his own re-election prospects under it. He’s already alienated significant portions of crucial battleground states like Michigan and he’s hemorrhaging support from every voter who doesn’t consider massacring civilians the cost of doing business.
Again, a purely fictional hypothetical invented to excuse the ongoing gross violations of labor rights by some of his favorite owner donors.
I swear you Biden stans are just as blind to the many faults of your Dear Leader as the Trump cult sometimes 🤦
Israel has not been found guilty of violating either statute, keep repeating it like a mantra but it doesn’t make it any more true. 21% of Israel’s population is Arab/Palestinian and they have full legal citizenship rights. Pretty odd for an, “apartheid state.” Israel is not attempting to destroy Palestinians in whole or in part, they are responding to an attack by a belligerent nation and going to great lengths to select legal targets in response even if they have significant collateral damage. It’s clear this is about self-defense and not racial based punishment, despite your uncharitable portrayal.
Biden is the best president we’ve had in a long time and I’m tired of Hamas stans criticizing him for supporting our allies against unprovoked terrorist attacks. Supporting our allies in a time of crisis is the right thing to do.
Because until now the US has vetoed every attempt at holding them accountable and the current ICJ case is still ongoing. The lack of a conviction doesn’t invalidate painfully obvious reality.
Could say the exact same thing about your denials. Difference would be that I’d be basing it on objective reality rather than lies from pro-Israel outlets such as NYT and Times of Israel.
Completely irrelevant.
No they fucking don’t! Even Times of Israel admits they don’t!
Yeah, they are. They’re specifically saying so themselves.
No, they are responding to a terrorist attack in a wildly disproportionate manner.
Nope. They’re notorious for lying about the legitimacy of targets. There’s no fully functional hospitals left in Gaza because that’s what the Israeli government wanted, not because there were Hamas “fighters” hidden in or under every single one like the IDF keeps claiming.
You mean CAUSE, right? Because by their own official estimate, they kill twice as many civilians as Hamas and since they refuse to share the data, it’s probably much worse than even that.
Are you fucking drunk? On other mind-altering substances? Because you can’t be this gullible sober and still function.
Unless of course you’re deliberately lying, which is very likely.
Second-best since Carter, but that’s still an awfully low bar since they’ve all been really baf in each their own way and also the shared way of being beholden to billionaires and their corporations.
Let me be absolutely clear: I abhor all terrorism by all terrorists, including Hamas. You don’t have to be on their side to abhor genocide.
Genocidal apartheid state regimes do not make for worthy allies.
I’m not saying that the attacks were in any way justified or excusable, but to call them unprovoked is the height of ideological blindness! Are you SURE you’re not drunk or high right now?
Not when said crisis is of the making of said allies and their crimes against humanity.
Yeah, the Hamas stans are basically indistinguishable from the MAGAs now. They just scream some made up shit they saw from their social media feeds over and over. They even subscribe to many of the same conspiracy theories as the MAGAs about the media being manipulated by the Jews. Though the MAGAs still tend to use code wards like “Globalists” but it’s ultimately the same delusional conspiracy theories.
It’s really sad how people who are well aware of the manipulations the Trump MAGA movement have used to get people to go down weird rabbit holes they can’t escape from, but then jumped down a rabbit hole right next to it that led to basically the same place. “Joe Biden is evil, the media is controlled by the Jews and is lying to everyone, only my social media feed tells me the truth.” It’s bizarre how people can’t step back for a moment and consider what they’re doing.
this is some pretty ham-fisted pigeonholing
I mean Hamas is a blood and soil (from the river to the sea!) movement, that’s anti-democracy, constantly goes on about victimization, constantly talks about restoring past greatness that was taken away by another ethnic group. They have demonstrated a willingness to use violence to maintain power.
They tick all the same boxes as the MAGAs. Might be because they’re both fascist movements.
I’m always involved in conversations with the “Free Palestine” crowd and the conversations go exactly the same way as with MAGAs. debating whether or not the news can be trusted, trying to pierce through the paranoid conspiracy theories, “both sides” logic, and dog whistles to get to the truth. Ultimately conversations with MAGAs devolve into the MAGA making overt homophobic/transphobic/racist statements. With the Hamas supporters it devolves into overt antisemitism.
Hell, yesterday there was someone willing to look the other way on gay people being crucified in Yemen because it was distracting from hating Israel. This person said they were part of the LBGTQ+ community.
Some real batshit crazy shit coming from both the MAGAs and Hamas fans.
These groups use the same logic (if you can call it that), they just have different groups that they target their hatred towards. It’s all about maintaining the righteous anger and rejecting anything that doesn’t fit the narrative.
Oh no. The guy youre responding too is an idiot… But now it looks like you might actually be idiot-er :/
Those striking railway workers eventually got their demands for sick leave met in their contracts with continued support from the Biden Administration AND our national economy didn’t grind to a halt
Source: https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
Yeah, I’m not really sure that’s the point. The fact that the only changes that are allowed to get through are what the president allows is disheartening. The fact is, these workers should have been able to strike on their own terms without being shut down. What happens with a more hostile leader? What Biden did was defang the Union in that instance. Threw them a bone afterward, sure, but he defanged them.
That’s how Biden works! The corporate media is against Biden and it shows to those who can see. It’s tough getting the real news and that’s a massive problem for this country.
They got a fraction of what they were asking for and they weren’t even asking for much. Their working conditions are still so awful that it’s only a question of time before the next major derailment disaster like the one in Ohio happens.
Next time, it might happen in a major metropolitan area, in which case many will die and the economy will suffer a lot worse than not trampling on their rights would have.
And even the tiny concessions they DID get in spite of Biden convincing congress to make them fight oligarchic railway companies without their best weapon, strike actions, was due to NLRB efforts with no help from Corporate Joe.
The strike threat was about paid sick leave, it wasn’t about railroad safety. Safety is an important issue too, but every single source from the time, even directly from the unions, explicitly discussed only paid sick leave. In that sense they got their demand met completely
It was about sick leave and improving the working conditions that are so awful that they’re literally making workers sick and trains less safe.
That’s simply not true. That’s the MSM and party narrative, but it isn’t the truth. Outlets less intertwined with the political establishment such as The Intercept and The Nation could have informed you better, had you bothered to look beyond the bubble.
You mean in that entirely fictional sense? To quote the Nation piece:
I love that railroad Striker story because it just makes identifying people online so easy. Because whenever people online complain about it it’s either one or two things, it’s either they’re completely ignorant of this actual scenario and what actually happened or they’re just being intellectually dishonest on purpose.
false dichotomy: i support the freedom to strike and anyone who challenges it is a class enemy
Right so the second one then, good to know. It’s always one or the other.
calling my dishonest doesn’t change that biden is a class enemy
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You love a story about blocking workers from striking? Cool bruh.
No, it just shows clearly who is actively informed on what happened and who is parroting nonsense information -either intentionally or not
Those child detention centers at the border: still open on his term.
That’s literally the opposite of what Biden’s administration is doing
God it’s so frustrating fighting against the tidal wave of misinformation. How did Republicans win at social media??
Because morons who fancy themselves revolutionaries are more than happy to join hands with fascists. “After Trump, us!”
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I would rephrase the title to say “Also” and not “Instead”. Biden did reform immigration detention. He also moved to more private detention centers. There are no longer children in cages, families being separated, or families being detained at all.
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If the bar is low, its bc of the past 50+ years of neoliberal politics. Its much easier to burn systems to the ground a la trump than it is to build new ones from scratch or improve existing systems.
Complaining about the bar being too low doesnt get it any higher, especially if ones vote or lack thereof goes towards helping the fascist win.
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He’s still against universal healthcare. I am tired of folks beating people for wanting candidates that are more electable than Biden running instead of him. Universal healthcare polls well on the right and left.
That one issue tells you everything you need to know about him, he sides with corporate lobbyists before material needs of the people.
Remember how much political capital Obama had to spend just to get the ACA passed, and even then just barely? I would love universal healthcare but this probably isn’t the best time to push for it, at least not until fascism is defeated and Democrats have the numbers. The president isn’t a genie who can just make things like this happen unilaterally. The public may support it but Republicans do not.
This is a bleak perspective and I refuse to believe that it isn’t a good time. When will it ever. That view will never produce change.
Pushing for legislation that is a non-starter when we are barely able to pass a budget to keep the government running isn’t a great strategy. Political capital needs to be spent where it is most effective, even if that means putting good legislation that isn’t viable on the back burner from time to time.
I hope we get universal healthcare sooner rather than later, but our problems are a little more existential right now. They might elect the guy who wants to end democracy. Sometimes we must compromise and do what is viable rather than what is desired. The good should not be sacrificed in pursuit of the perfect.
People not getting healthcare right now, is just as existential. Why are we not deserving of passing that? The time to fight for things like that is now. I’m not saying we shouldn’t vote against Trump, we are all saying it is best to have a healthy conversation about who would be a better candidate overall.
It has nothing to do with deserving, it has to do with viability.
You shrink the world of possible with your imperfect logic on probable.
democrats are fascists, so voting for them won’t stop it.
What polls are you looking at that have universal health care polling well on both sides?
Anyone that asks the question.
Every poll I can find has the large majority of Republicans opposing single payer health care. Some are in favor of “universal health care” but that being a mix of public and private similar to what the afordable* care act with the individual mandate did.
Op said universal healthcare
And said the majority of people on the right support it. I can only find polls where like a 1/3 do.
Then you aren’t looking.
Isn’t hard to find, because it never is in contention. Republicans in power, Democrats in power, want the status quo because of the lobby of pharma, healthcare insurance, and corporate control over our bodies. Those in the public on the right and left support government paid healthcare. https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx
Your source seems to disagree.
Oh OK, just a vast majority of Americans and a growing subset of republicans. So why aren’t the democrats choosing a candidate that supports this again?
I was just wondering about your statement that majorities on both sides support it. Not really debating that it’s a good idea.
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Beat = Got Obama to convince many of them to drop out and endorse him in the same night
Yes, that was part of it
Thanks, I’m in my 50s. I remember. I also remember the electability politics used in that election on the democratic side by corporate media to force a right of center candidate. He also didn’t beat any one in primaries in this election, which is a different election.
That’s a lot of words for “my politics are not as popular as I wish they were”.
You have a lot of ad hominem and poorly backed up arguments. Electability is a term that was used a ton by corporate media to give Biden an edge over candidates that polled better than him in hypothetical general elections with Trump. It is fact. You can look it up but you don’t want to learn. Goodbye.
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Sounds like you read the newspapers but that’s not where the real news is at. Corporations own the news. Dig deeper, a lot deeper. Biden isn’t as bad as the MSM wants you to believe.
You’re seriously saying that the MSM, most of which enjoys a symbiotic relationship with the DNC are portraying Biden as WORSE than he really is??
It’s because I consume media from OUTSIDE of the MSM bubble that I know he’s not anywhere near as great as the likes of Politico and NYT keep pretending.
As a Biden supporter, I have to assume that all the lies and bullshit about him that have infected the (almost exclusively) young Democrats today is coming from Tiktok or Instagram or some other social media apo I don’t have.
This supports that theory.
Do you idiots not see the parallels between you and MAGA? It’s the same exact playbook! “Don’t trust the MSM”, “do your research”, “get angry about xyz”
I’m 41 and don’t use any social media, unless Lemmy counts.
Nope. I was referring to sources such as The Intercept, The Nation and (for news about the Gaza genocide) Haaretz.
Not MSM ≠ not reliable news
Says the guy convinced that there’s no good reason not to worship the president formerly known as The Senator From MBNA 🙄
Not trusting the MSM because they’re a billionaire-owned tool of the oppressive establishment that often lies to further such narratives as “the more cops the less crime” and “Israel’s just defending itself” ≠ not trusting them because they don’t lie ENOUGH like the MAGA cult.
My research relies on trusting the expertise of those who have proven themselves reliable. The maga “research” starts with doing everything but that.
I get angry about things that are wrong, such as everything the maga cult stands for and the lies of both them and the corrupt neoliberal elite that you’re simping for. They get angry at whichever imagined issue their handlers tell them to be angry about.
TL;DR: Horse shoe theory is bullshit made up by ideologically challenged liberals to falsely smear diametrically opposed opponents as identical.
Fish hook theory is much closer to reality, especially when it comes to propaganda.
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Thanks for the encouragement!
You don’t tend to get much of that when dealing with people who can’t tell diametrically opposite ideologies apart and think that makes them the adults in the room 😄
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Great takes. More bitching about the nonfascist of the election while ignoring the tidal wave of disinfo looking to plant a literal russian stooge in the strongest office in the world.
Bystanders, please consider that lemmy is infilitrated just as other social media is. Those in here trying to pretend this is not a social media site, or that this place hasnt been infected with bad faith actors are more than anything trying to get u to drop ur guard and take their deculturalizing comments to heart without a fight.
The kgb bragged about infiltrating our social fabric back in the 80s. It doesn’t take much to see them hiding in the shadows here today.
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Still ignoring my points there, while deflecting with “haha look at this crazy here calling me out.” And then u accuse me of hero worship, a well known problem on the right, even if ive done no such thing. A very clever method of making both sides here look equally crazy to the bystanders. To them, i say:
I got banned in World News for calling out russian shills spreading clear kremlin propaganda. This place isnt safe, and when months from now ur leftist spaces do nothing but circlejerk over silly slogans and nonvoting, remember this comment, and ask yourself who stands to benefit from such a culture?
Most mature leftists are not ones to disparage u from voting so much as encourage u to take other forms of direct action. You will not have the option for either enable if this capitalist hellscape goes full fascist, and i assure u, US foreign policy being interventionist for 80 years is NOT the definition of fascism.
git em
See this is the shit that supports horseshoe theory. Far-left and far-right, you’re all about idolarity and worship and dictatorships and changing the world by force. Moderates don’t believe in that shit. We don’t worship anyone. You’re just mad because your far right counterparts have a strongman to rally around and you currently don’t. But you do crave one.
It’s not about the “why”, it’s about the end result. You’ve been manipulated to be paranoid and angry, just like them. Of course, the methods of manipulation were a little different but you ended up in the same place.
(and let me give a disclaimer here: “both sides” arguments is just as terrible as your current left-wing MAGA shit. The far left like you are a sliver of the Democrats, but what I call the far right are actually in control of the Republicans. You spout absurd shit and it’s frustrating but at the end of the day largely irrelevant. MAGA spouts absurd shit and it’s frightening, because they have the power to turn it into absurd actions. Just because I equate the far right and far left in terms of stupidity and susceptibility to propaganda, does not mean I equate them in terms of dangerousness. Even worst case scenario, the average tankie’s utopia is better than the average MAGA utopia.)
Someone never heard of the authoritarianism axis of the political compass…
You’re pretty close when it comes to tankies, who are far left authoritarians, but less authoritarian people exist on the left too.
Personally my stance vary from social democrat to almost anarchist depending on the subject, but always significantly less authoritarian than the DNC and the so-called moderates (actually center-right to right wing) who have no ideology except “my team good, everyone else other team”.
I’m a pacifist, I know that ACAB and I believe that the main purpose of government is to protect people from the tyranny of the powerful. So no, I don’t want “my side” to have a fucking strawman committing atrocities. Biden actively supporting some of those is plenty bad enough.
Another steaming pile of horse shoe horse shit.
I’m not paranoid and I’m not angry about anywhere near the same things as the fascists are. That you can’t see two people angry at the same person without automatically assuming that their opinions and reasons for having them are both identical, that’s a you being an idiot problem.
Complaining about both sidesism being terrible while literally says that both of the sides that disagree with you are identical must be some kind of record! Surely you must be putting me on! Nobody can have THAT little self-awareness! 🤦
Anyways, I’ve officially had enough of your delusions. Have the day you deserve.
Forgot to add: lack of ability to comprehend nuance. Another similarity between you and MAGA.
Again with the projection! Do you have any idea how much nuance you have to miss in order to mistake an anti-authoritharian pacifist with a fascist?
Clearly not, since you’re doing it while insisting that I’M the weird one.
Now leave me alone and have the day you deserve.
how old someone is has no bearing on whether what they say is true
I only mentioned it because it has bearing on what media you consume. Younger people consume media from apps like tiktok and instagram.
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So you’re going with the whole “liberal media” trope, eh? Figures.
Some tropes are based in truth and the one about the MSM consisting of billionaire-owned outlets that unquestioningly support either neoliberalism (Politico, MSDNC, NYT etc) or fascism (Faux News, Breitbart, WSJ editorials etc) is one of them.
MSM slobs his knob, what are you on about?