It was taking around 24 hours to drain just ~1—3 liters of water in my kitchen sink. Probably comparable to IV drip speeds. After a huge effort and expense, I finally fixed it without demolishing the kitchen – which would have been my next and final move¹. Sequence of events:
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tried many boiling pots of water to melt any grease
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tried 3 varieties of cheap drain cleaners, the contents of which are not always known due to trade-secret protectionism (when most likely it’s just bleach or lye). Also poured down ordinary household bleach (likely in the typical 15% concentration).
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removed trap and all joints… down to just the wall opening.
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snaked the line with a simple snake. Took all day to get the snake inserted because apparently there are many hard 90° turns. It kept hitting a wall & required lots of force and spinning. Poured boiling water in with the snake inserted and it drained quickly. Pulled the snake out and it was slow again. Repeated the process several times and one late night just left the snake inserted figuring i would deal with it in the morning. Pulled the snake out and it was permanently curled up like a pig’s tail. I guess it hit such a hard turn that it coiled up inside rather than progressing down the line.
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cut off the meter or so of curled up snake. Used a blow torch to soften the new end and pulled on it with pliers so the end was a little stretched as they come from the factory. Bent some copper pipe, drilled a hole in it, threaded it, added a screw, so I could use the pipe to force the snake to spin close to the drain entry point. Made no difference. Bizarre twist: a small amount of hair was on the end of the snake, yet this is a kitchen drain. This suggests the snake went deep enough to reach intersecting drain pipes. But if that’s true, then why was it coiled up? That remains an unsolved mystery. After the last use a new kink occurred higher up so the snake is ruined.
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every week poured a different brand of enzyme based drain cleaner following warm water to warm up the pipes & let it sit for 6+ hours. Used 3 different enzyme brands on weekly rotation.
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tried a two component drain cleaner: ① sodium hydroxide + ② sodium hyphchorite with sodium hydroxide (yeah, sounds redudant but bleach is really in both components)
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custom built a leaf blower connection using a series of PVC pipes, some softened with a heat gun to tightly fit to the blower. Not kidding. Gave it full force and got no results. Thought at the time that this was the nuclear option.
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bought an “auger”, which is a snake inside a box with a crank & essentially the same features I added to the simple snake. It also hit a wall & could not make one of the turns. It came out clean, but with a kink from pushing on it (which is what you do when nothing else works).
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asked IRC chem channel for advice. My questions were chem related but they really do not want to hear too much home improvement chatter. Can’t say I blame them but the best chem knowledge would come from chemists not home DiYers. Someone said get sulfuric acid “if you can”.
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(illegal) found a source for sulfuric acid, which is illegal for consumers in my region. Poured only ~30ml down the drain (much less than directed but this stuff is costly), heard it sizzling. Instructions say wait 15 min then pour cold water. I waited 20 min before topping off with cold water. No progress. Took all night to drain as far as i could see. Poured ~300ml more down the drain. Sizzling. Smells like vomit. Bits of white junk show up… probably part of a “#fatberg”. But still no progress. When the visible drain is clear, added ~170ml more (giving a cumulative total of ½ liter at this point, which is actually the directed amount to pour in one shot). Still no progress.
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bought a bicycle pump style plunger. This thing can mate directly with the pipework. Used it just to push water down. It worked to just quickly push the water further down, but then topping up with water showed it’s still clogged. So then I did the pumping action with the plunger. I wanted to resist this because I don’t exactly want sulfuric acid getting sucked into the new plunger and slashing around. Finally the clog is clear. Cleaned the plunger with several full pumps of clean water.
Now it drains 5 liters of water in 29 seconds. Wow what difference. I can even see the tornado in the sink, which I don’t recall if I ever saw that in this sink.
Costs of chemicals and tools were, shit, roughly like:
25- snake (destroyed)
25- auger (cheap compared to most augers, kinked)
20- brand A enzymes
18- brand B enzymes
21- brand C enzymes
5- standard drain cleaner brand X
8- drain cleaner brand Y specialized in hair (because common drain cleaners are useless on hair)
10- drain cleaner brand Z
20- 1 liter sulfuric acid
15- PVC parts for leaf blower
8- simple plunger (useless because it just pushes trap water out the overflow)
10- bicycle pump style plunger (apparently the most critical tool)
So probably roughly ~150 in costs.
IMO the sulfuric acid was essential for loosening whatever I had in there (probably a fatberg), but the final success came from the bicycle pump style plunger directly on the line.
(edit)
Adding footnote 1: well, I did have one really bizarre idea that I was going to try next before demolishing the kitchen. An unused toilet happens to have accumulated a colony of “sewer drain moth fly larvae”. I thought: why not scoop up those worm-like things and drop them in the standing water of the clogged drain? They’re generally considered pests, but if they were to chow down on the clog, they would be helping me out. Luckily it did not come to this. They may have also have risked adding to the clog. In fact, for all I know, they could have been contributing to the clog. I don’t know for certain if it was a fatberg or what down there.
(Apologies to anyone who happened to be chowing down on a burger from #Fatburger while reading this post.)
Options that I nixed:
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someone suggested bailing wire. It’s stiffer than a coat hanger so I really don’t think it can handle all the sharp twists and turns of my drain pipe.
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pressure washer hose designed for drain cleaning-- I think it’s also too stiff for the sharp turns of my drain pipes. The plastic hose would get scraped on every turn and thin out the walls of the hose. The tip has an overhang that could get stuck when pulling it out. I think these are just for big outdoor drains/downspouts.
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huge doses of enzymes, not just the weekly maintenance amounts-- enzymes are /costly/ & my expectation of them working to clear a big amount of junk at once is quite low. I think they are good for just slightly removing thin layers of buildup.
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gasoline, matches-- became increasingly tempting
Unanticipated damage:
The acid fizzed up and overflowed a bit. It’s like pouring a beer and not well anticipating size of the head. The water top may have been closer that I thought. Some dripped onto galvanized steel radiator pipes that run below the drain and a PEX pipe. The PEX seemed to take it okay but sulfuric acid is said to be extremely corrosive to metal. The pipes were very shiny right where the drops landed and had black rings around those splatter points. Then the shiny part rusted within hours. I think those areas of the pipe are now de-galvanized. I rubbed the affected area with steel wool then painted using a Rustoleum type of paint which is meant to go straight onto rust.
Ok, so as you noted at the end, sulfuric acid was a bad idea for the pipes.
The problem you will quickly run into is that you poored many chemicals in your pipe, so new chemicals might react with them. It is especially dangerous when you mix bleach and acid, as that can make deadly combat gas (I don’t remember exactly what produces what, but as a rule, avoid cooking various chemicals together, it’s very dangerous).
Bleach is not a dissolvant, it’s a disinfectant. It’s of no use to free a pipe.
To my limited knowledge, the best chemicals are acid chlorhydric or soda. Never ever use both. acid chlorhydric might be bad for the pipes though, so soda is usually better. Acid chlorhydric is best to remove limestone. Soda is best to remove biomater. Both of these are very cheap.
But you already poured chemicals in the pipe, so you need to clean that first. Have water flow in this for some time before you pour anything more into that.
PS: I forgot about the warning : working with chemicals is dangerous. Get gloves, and if possibles, glasses. A chemistry jacket would also protect your clothes, and sometimes your skin.
Ok, so as you noted at the end, sulfuric acid was a bad idea for the pipes.
Not exactly. The sulfuric acid likely solved my problem (in combination with a plunger). It overflowed a little & attacked radiator pipes due to me underestimating the foam expansion rate (user error - perhaps poured too fast), but AFAIK it did not harm the drain pipes. Sulfuric acid would not be a good early stage choice, but when most chemicals and techniques have been exhausted it’s one of the most effective options.
The problem you will quickly run into is that you poored many chemicals in your pipe, so new chemicals might react with them.
That’s good general advice. But note that my episode spans many weeks. I know not to mix them (acid & bleach in particular). Every chemical went in on a different day with a water flush in between (which often took ½ day or a full day).
Bleach is not a dissolvant, it’s a disinfectant. It’s of no use to free a pipe.
I’m a bit confused on this because many of the consumer grade drain cleaners seem to rely on bleach as the active ingredient. Some of them are simply “thick bleach” (in a gel form).
To my limited knowledge, the best chemicals are acid chlorhydric or soda. Never ever use both. acid chlorhydric might be bad for the pipes though, so soda is usually better. Acid chlorhydric is best to remove limestone. Soda is best to remove biomater. Both of these are very cheap.
Do you mean hydrochloric acid & caustic soda (aka sodium hydroxide/NaOH)?
The hair-specific drain cleaner I have is based on sodium hydroxide.
The 2-component one was based on sodium hydroxide & sodium hypochlorite (aka bleach). I don’t recall what the other cleaners were.
Another point of confusion: chemists told me consumer drain cleaners are useless against hair. Then I noticed hair-specific drain cleaners on the shelf, which somewhat supports the idea that universal/generic drain cleaners lack effect on hair. But then the hair-specific drain cleaner I bought only mentions sodium hydroxide as an active ingredient, and this is the same common ingredient in many non-specific drain cleaners.
Welcome to home ownership.
It’s lovely…
How many times did you think “I should hire someone” but then you remembered how expensive it would be?
Exactly… that was constantly on my mind. Last time I hired a plumber to fix a leak while I was away, the plumber was incompetent. Did not find the leak (which was in /exposed/ pipework), charged 200 cash and ran with the money. The plumber actually charged 4 times as much as I paid a doctor to make a house call.
Some plumbers can legally buy sulfuric acid for this purpose. So in fact by law I was essentially being forced to hire a plumber, in effect.
My way of thinking is that I’m going to learn something & my tooling costs will be less than a plumber. I’ll “own” the problem for the next time. This one about drove me to the edge, considering I was about to experiment with borderline parasites.
A pro would have had an expensive snake cam… so there’s that. I would not want to put my own snake cam down the pipe because it’s not made for such filthy environments… would likely ruin the cam.
I blame whatever plumber installed the drain. They used many hard-right 90° fittings that hinder snakes. Then they installed no clean-out. And no vent. I also suspect the pipes under the floor may be goffred (accordian-like). So the lesson here is that snakes are not always the answer if the pipes are lousy.
Where do you live that sulfuric acid is illegal?! It’s a basic chemical, I use it all the time. Tried some last night in an ultrasonic cleaner last night. (Didn’t work for that project. 🤷🏻♂️) You can go to the auto store and get a 5-gallon bucket.
And talk about environmentally neutral, doesn’t get much better. I forget the chemistry term, but it “dilutes” in water instantly. That is to say, it ain’t sulfuric acid anymore. When I’m working with it, I just leave the tap running in case of a spill. Or, just throw baking soda on it, receive water and carbon dioxide.
Most of mine comes from draining old car batteries. If I have to give the battery back for proper recycling and get my $10 back, I’m keeping the acid. What if you do that? Illegal to buy, own or both?
I subscribe to a Youtube channel of a guy who does nothing but clean drains with a pressure washer setup and have looked at doing similar work on my own house and it’s actually pretty reasonable (like $120). I’m sure OP spent more in time and money than that and could have possibly damage their plumbing with the chemical cocktails.
From watching enough videos, OP’s clog may have been from wipes, sanitary products, roots, grease/fat, or a broken pipe. Almost none of these can be fixed with chemicals.
It’s a kitchen drain but not like in the US. Garbage disposals are banned here. So there would be no way for wipes, qtips, or anything bigger than a pea to enter the drain. It’s a terraced house in a dense city, so no trees, which likely rules out roots.
The city water is /very/ hard, and past residents likely put plenty of oil down the drain. Every time the drain regurgitates something, it’s a stinky white substance that appears to have coffee grounds embedded in it. I know not to put oil or coffee down the drain but past residents are another story. So I think a mass of fat, coffee, and minerals from the hard water could be culprits.
WRT using a pressure washer, I think that would be an option if there were a cleanout with a straight shot. That youtuber would probably be paralyzed when coming into a ridiculous series of tight 90s and no cleanout or vent, and possibly goffred pipes. Or does he have some kind of special extra flexible high pressure hose?
Garbage disposals are banned here.
LOL, just asked you about sulphuric acid and now this? What’s the reasoning behind that ban? Keeps organic waste out of the system?
What’s the reasoning behind that ban?
The drain infrastructure in most US cities is relatively modern. The city drain pipes are big & thus able to handle a big amount of food waste coming from residents. I think I heard some minority of US cities also ban garbage disposals because for whatever reason their pipework can’t handle the load.
Old cities have small pipes that could not sustain the onslaught of thick food waste, as I understand it. In my city, rats outnumber humans by 2 to 1 and I think they thrive in the sewer. So I’m not sure if it’s also an effort to not feed rats. In any case, the city’s preferred way of dealing with waste food is to put it in the trash.
Recently they required food waste to be separated into a different color bag than the others. So they collect the food waste together and compost it. In the end, this is probably the most forward-thinking approach despite the sewer system being quite behind.
Thanks! That makes sense. I’m American, so our sewers aren’t nearly as old as other parts of the world. Plus, people like me aren’t even on a sewer system. If I want to jam out my septic system, and pay for it to be cleaned more frequently, that’s on me.
I had a stubborn clog like this. Draino did nothing. Drain took an entire 25ft snake and found nothing. I went and bought a drain bladder. You hook it up to a water supply and it expands to seal itself in be pipe and then uses pressure to blast the clog out. I figured I had a 50/50 shot at either clearing the clog or exploding a pipe in my wall.
I have no idea where the clog was or where it ended up, but I haven’t had a problem in the 2 years since
You need to find the drain outside. Also, your main line might be damaged.
When it clogs up again in 6 months you should call a professional to blast it from outside and do a TV inspection
Can you explain why you say this?
The same branch is shared by a bathroom (toilet, shower, sink) and those bathroom drains have never had a clog. Although they always periodically stunk despite full traps so I suspect a leak was always there. But since it’s only occasional I wonder if it’s a leak at the top of a pipe, not spillage. Well, otoh there might be spillage going on in the bathroom because there are drain flies, which might be feeding on spillage from somewhere. It just seems bizarre that the odor only manifests occasionally.
The big branches meet at a main Y connector. That Y connector is new. The basement had a serious leak under the concrete a couple years ago. The basement floor was dug up and new pipe was installed. I doubt there would be any issues with this new pipework. I think the only segment that’s quite dicey is from the kitchen sink to wherever it joins the bathroom.
(edit) are you perhaps thinking that the clog has moved along and will clog again downstream? I doubt that, because the diameter of the kitchen drain is 40mm and it eventually joins a branch that’s like 90mm in diameter. If this thing were to snowball for some reason, it could probably be reached from the cleanout at the main Y fitting, no?
Whatever the issue is, I think you should clean it from outside and towards inside, instead of going outwards from inside.
This usually requires a sewer truck. Or you can put a hose up the Y clean out. That can also be done with a power washer snake attachment, but at that point it’s easier to call the sewer truck, because these consumer gadgets aren’t really that great. I’ve tried everything and in the end I had to call the truck anyway. You’re already hundreds of dollars into gadgets and chemicals. Stop it. Cut your losses and call a professional next time.
I can’t quite work out if you’re making a prediction of a clog returning, or if you’ve not realized that there is no longer a clog.
For weeks I have been fighting clog. But the clog is finally gone and the drain is now faster than I have ever seen. The drain actually keeps pace with the faucet on full blast. In the past, even in the best of times, I think the fastest it drained was 1 liter in 20 seconds. Now 1 liter drains in 6 seconds.
You’re already hundreds of dollars into gadgets and chemicals. Stop it. Cut your losses and call a professional next time.
Pros give different results in different areas. I called a plumber for a leak once. I was out of town, but a simple leak was dripping and forming a puddle on the floor. The leak was in exposed PEX pipe visibly strapped to the wall (yes that room is quite ugly). The plumber spent little time, failed to find the leak, blamed something that was fine, and charged €200. We called him back and he made the outrageous claim that the puddle was due to “condensation”. Left and gave no refund. I would love to have a reliable & trustworthy plumber. But since I don’t have that I have to become the plumber.
My costs in the drain fight were ~¾ of €200 (less than the incompetent plumber’s charge for simply showing up). Every time I redo the pipes I’m appalled by the work of past plumbers. So I think I’m just not in a good place to hire plumbers. There is no quality control of any kind in my area. No Better Business Bureau of sorts to record complaints. So the infrastructure is not setup for bad plumbers to fail.
Sulphuric acid can damage some plastics but mainly the bendy accordion style or metal pipes.
If it is used in drain cleaners some additives must be used to slow it’s reactivity. Lye, or NaOH, has one disadvantage - it makes scares and then you feel burning. H2SO4 burns and then makes scares.
That’s worrying just because I have a suspicion that there are accordion pipes. So I just did a test. Plugged the drain & filled the sink to the top with water. Pulled the plug and ran to the basement. There is a strong gushing from the main pipe. So I’d say at least most of the water is going to the right place. So certainly it’s not a case where the sewage found a complete alternate path. The clog is in fact gone. Though there’s always a chance of leaks, which in this case would be into or below a concrete slab.
If I’m in this forum asking why my whole kitchen floor smells like sewage in a few weeks from now, plz remind me about this.
Do you know concentration of the acid? I think it is only case in higher concentrations like 80% or above.
Maybe if I track down the MSDS it might say, but I can say for sure. The bottle is labelled as a pro drain cleaner for that purpose. So it’s not likely laboratory or military grade or anything intense.