But seriously - if you do want to see the inner workings, perform a Gentoo stage 2 to dip your toes in. LFS after if you’re feeling dangerous. Then things will start to come together. But maybe do it on a spare machine… You can/will break things and you will need a fallback to do research. Don’t bother if you don’t care to read manuals, it’s not easy and can be frustrating.
If you are happy with the distributions you use, there is no need to try Gentoo.
In my opinion, as a Gentoo user for the last 20 years, Gentoo is the most flexible distribution there is. Gentoo can be as stable as Debian or it can be as (or even more) cutting edge as Arch. Or it can be anything in between and you can even mix and match as you like.
The cost you pay for that flexibility is the compile time it takes to build the packages. And Gentoo is even providing you with prebuilt binaries for a very large amount of packages.
Not sure if you’d gain all that much with your level of experience. LFS might be a better starting point. However, after suggesting doing a stage 2 to a few that were eager to learn more (even though they’d been using it for a very long time), it was generally a positive experience. If you go through the guide I’m sure you’d be able to tell quickly whether it would be useful.
Honestly as a not-used-Gentoo person recklessly throwing around my opinion on the internet…
It sounds like either it can be “Really optimized and crazy performant if you know what you’re doing.”
Or “It’s a fun hobby because you think operating systems are fun.”
Personally it seems cool except I think I’d start to burn out fast if every package install means having to read compilation instructions and edit configs.
Maybe because my experience compiling stuff is always like “What’s your problem this time?! Okay where do I find that package version?!”
EDIT: I love all the educational, reassuring, and enthusiastic responses. This is what makes Linux cool. :D I should give Gentoo a try…
Package install doesn’t mean you have to read compilation instructions and edit configs. Usually you just install like in any other distro. (Except it takes a bit longer to finish.)
That’s actually pretty reassuring! I was under the impression it was a huge flex haha. I’m curious how much practical speed you gain from compiling everything to your specific architecture. 🤔
It depends. You also have to decide if you want to use LTO or PGO or similar techniques to further boost performance (but massively impacting compile time).
Generally Gentoo ‘feels’ smoother than other distributions. And I had an old netbook that used to be unable to play HD content on Ubuntu and the like, but HD content worked smoothly on Gentoo.
Nah, it’s not that bad. You don’t need to optimize the living hell out of it and they also have some ready-made binary packages. Plus you can also use flatpak for instance to make your life easier.
Sounds pretty rad actually if one is packing a halfway decent processor! :) Thanks for enlightening us!
You’re right, I’ve learned to love flatpaks for certain things. The sandboxing can be a little reassuring and I’ll definitely reach for it if I’m getting dependency-hell from a core package and just “Need it to work without spending a weekend on it.” :p
@MonkeMischief@corsicanguppy portage tree already conains all instructions and follows automaticly. You optionally may override options with use flags unlike binary distros where you only can use default configuration
Ah that’s really cool! Sounds a lot more approachable than I thought. I’ve always heard it talked about like a flex distro for after somebody graduates from “installed Arch, no-installer” academy. :p
(Another thing I need to try again. First time failed hahaha.)
I have somewhat similar experience (with far more recent kernels tho, 2.6 and newer) gentoo has some gentoo specific things, it won’t really teach you a lot when you have a certain level of knowledge, and how most parts interface with each other. It’s a fun exercise if you have time.
Hahah. At least you learned some things. Took me a few goes after thinking I was slick having stage 2 down pat. Then tried some BSDs and was humbled again.
Heh, there was a guy on our local forums who daily drived FreeBSD 20 years ago. They probably still using it. 20 years later, I still don’t know any other people who daily drive a BSD.
I’ve been running OpenBSD since 2.8. I’ve only met one other BSD user in real life and they were baffled to why I’d run it as a workstation OS. Sometimes I am too.
Comparing to Linux BSD is quite niche, and I even met a guy who uses Linux other than me in real life was like in 2011 for the first time. No one knew what BSD was.
Personally I only meddled with NetBSD for really old PCs.
I guess I can count you as the first person I know who uses OpenBSD now.
I daily drive OpenBSD. I found it easier to set up than NetBSD which apparently is ass backwards as open is supposed to be harder. for the life of me I just couldn’t wrap my head around getting the amdgpu drivers working on NetBSD.
I also found OpenBSD slightly better supported for various hardware than FreeBSD. Wifi works better on it, these old ass logitech headphones I have work flawlessly on OpenBSD when on FreeBSD they just didn’t work at all and gave off horrible feedback or I couldn’t turn the mic off. Also found setting up a Debian VM much easier on OpenBSD than FreeBSD (still a chore though)
Also OpenBSD for whatever reason probably has the most solid and decently sized gaming community than the other ones.
It’s a great OS that just stays out of your way. really fun to tinker with. Just don’t expect to do EVERYTHING on it. for surfing, certain dev work, etc it’s great.
I see, I thought FreeBSD has the most users so I would guess a better hardware support but apparently not. I was only interested in NetBSD because of backwards hardware compatibility and that’s pretty much it, because some stuff has problems even with small Linux distros.
It’s quite interesting to see people who also game on BSD by the way. Rock on!
I assumed the same as you when I tried out the BSDs. I went with FreeBSD first because I assumed that was the better supported one. Wifi was absolutely horrible on it. connection would constantly drop, or was slow, etc. on OpenBSD i haven’t had those issues. Also had a lot of issues setting up a VM on FreeBSD and getting certain USB devices to work correctly. neither of those issues on OpenBSD.
By the way, I watched a video about OpenBSD and kinda intrigued to put it on my old Thinkpad. Well, at least I’ll consider if I can make it without a headache. I have a plan to make a really minimal (and maybe secure) writing machine. :)
I heard BSD is solid as a server. The person I know had to compile everything but that was many years ago. I would assume you have binary packages as well nowadays?
I never really used BSD and I only know NetBSD a little. I’m actually curious about a NetBSD server but I’m lazy even for my desktop. And I was considering switching my Debian server to Alpine but I haven’t touched that server since 2019 aside from occasional updates, so even that’s a big step for me. I guess the more realistic standpoint is I will install Alpine when my netbook finally dies and have to replace it with another hardware. :)
yes there are binary packages available, so i just use ‘pkg install …’ like ‘apt-get install’. NetBSD also has binary packages and is pretty good. it’s all fun to use, but tbh i don’t think there’s many reasons to move away from a linux system because there’s not many clear advantages
honestly just installing Gentoo is a great way to learn various aspects of linux. It’s a process, a lengthy one, but if you manage to install it successfully you can pretty much install any distro or BSD with absolute ease and not even think about it.
Totally agree. I installed Gentoo a couple times before (last time maybe 10 years ago though, all were stage3). I tried stage1 once and my Linux knowledge was not even good that time, so there is that. :)
Even installing it will teach you a lot of things.
Proud Gentoo user for the past 12ish years and this is the first I’ve heard of “stage 1” and “stage 2”. This explains the number for stage 3 I guess lol. Even with stage 3, and having dealt with gentoo (still my daily driver to date), I think I’ve learned more than I would have with many other distros.
But seriously - if you do want to see the inner workings, perform a Gentoo stage 2 to dip your toes in. LFS after if you’re feeling dangerous. Then things will start to come together. But maybe do it on a spare machine… You can/will break things and you will need a fallback to do research. Don’t bother if you don’t care to read manuals, it’s not easy and can be frustrating.
I’ve been working with Linux since 1.1.98, I think, 1.2.13 for sure. That’s probably 32 years.
I’ve built kernels for enterprise distribution as part of a build group. I’ve worked to secure our distribution. I’ve led the security response team.
I’ve never run gentoo.
You think I should ?
If you are happy with the distributions you use, there is no need to try Gentoo.
In my opinion, as a Gentoo user for the last 20 years, Gentoo is the most flexible distribution there is. Gentoo can be as stable as Debian or it can be as (or even more) cutting edge as Arch. Or it can be anything in between and you can even mix and match as you like.
The cost you pay for that flexibility is the compile time it takes to build the packages. And Gentoo is even providing you with prebuilt binaries for a very large amount of packages.
Not sure if you’d gain all that much with your level of experience. LFS might be a better starting point. However, after suggesting doing a stage 2 to a few that were eager to learn more (even though they’d been using it for a very long time), it was generally a positive experience. If you go through the guide I’m sure you’d be able to tell quickly whether it would be useful.
Honestly as a not-used-Gentoo person recklessly throwing around my opinion on the internet…
It sounds like either it can be “Really optimized and crazy performant if you know what you’re doing.”
Or “It’s a fun hobby because you think operating systems are fun.”
Personally it seems cool except I think I’d start to burn out fast if every package install means having to read compilation instructions and edit configs.
Maybe because my experience compiling stuff is always like “What’s your problem this time?! Okay where do I find that package version?!”
EDIT: I love all the educational, reassuring, and enthusiastic responses. This is what makes Linux cool. :D I should give Gentoo a try…
Package install doesn’t mean you have to read compilation instructions and edit configs. Usually you just install like in any other distro. (Except it takes a bit longer to finish.)
That’s actually pretty reassuring! I was under the impression it was a huge flex haha. I’m curious how much practical speed you gain from compiling everything to your specific architecture. 🤔
It depends. You also have to decide if you want to use LTO or PGO or similar techniques to further boost performance (but massively impacting compile time).
Generally Gentoo ‘feels’ smoother than other distributions. And I had an old netbook that used to be unable to play HD content on Ubuntu and the like, but HD content worked smoothly on Gentoo.
Nah, it’s not that bad. You don’t need to optimize the living hell out of it and they also have some ready-made binary packages. Plus you can also use flatpak for instance to make your life easier.
Sounds pretty rad actually if one is packing a halfway decent processor! :) Thanks for enlightening us!
You’re right, I’ve learned to love flatpaks for certain things. The sandboxing can be a little reassuring and I’ll definitely reach for it if I’m getting dependency-hell from a core package and just “Need it to work without spending a weekend on it.” :p
Flatpak is toxic to iso27002 and SLSA, though.
@MonkeMischief @corsicanguppy portage tree already conains all instructions and follows automaticly. You optionally may override options with use flags unlike binary distros where you only can use default configuration
Ah that’s really cool! Sounds a lot more approachable than I thought. I’ve always heard it talked about like a flex distro for after somebody graduates from “installed Arch, no-installer” academy. :p
(Another thing I need to try again. First time failed hahaha.)
I have somewhat similar experience (with far more recent kernels tho, 2.6 and newer) gentoo has some gentoo specific things, it won’t really teach you a lot when you have a certain level of knowledge, and how most parts interface with each other. It’s a fun exercise if you have time.
You should be at the point where you just want simply and easy. Because you have reached the point “I’m tired Boss. So tired.” When it comes to an OS.
So maybe Mint or a Fedora Atomic spin.
I’d do Atomic but it’s a bipolar source of truth, which violates iso27002.
Good with either enterprise or fedora, thanks!
I once tried Gentoo stage 1 because I felt bad ass and failed miserably. However that also taught me a lot.
Hahah. At least you learned some things. Took me a few goes after thinking I was slick having stage 2 down pat. Then tried some BSDs and was humbled again.
Heh, there was a guy on our local forums who daily drived FreeBSD 20 years ago. They probably still using it. 20 years later, I still don’t know any other people who daily drive a BSD.
I’ve been running OpenBSD since 2.8. I’ve only met one other BSD user in real life and they were baffled to why I’d run it as a workstation OS. Sometimes I am too.
That’s fair I think :)
Comparing to Linux BSD is quite niche, and I even met a guy who uses Linux other than me in real life was like in 2011 for the first time. No one knew what BSD was.
Personally I only meddled with NetBSD for really old PCs.
I guess I can count you as the first person I know who uses OpenBSD now.
Masochism?
probably
deleted by creator
I daily drive OpenBSD. I found it easier to set up than NetBSD which apparently is ass backwards as open is supposed to be harder. for the life of me I just couldn’t wrap my head around getting the amdgpu drivers working on NetBSD.
I also found OpenBSD slightly better supported for various hardware than FreeBSD. Wifi works better on it, these old ass logitech headphones I have work flawlessly on OpenBSD when on FreeBSD they just didn’t work at all and gave off horrible feedback or I couldn’t turn the mic off. Also found setting up a Debian VM much easier on OpenBSD than FreeBSD (still a chore though)
Also OpenBSD for whatever reason probably has the most solid and decently sized gaming community than the other ones.
It’s a great OS that just stays out of your way. really fun to tinker with. Just don’t expect to do EVERYTHING on it. for surfing, certain dev work, etc it’s great.
I see, I thought FreeBSD has the most users so I would guess a better hardware support but apparently not. I was only interested in NetBSD because of backwards hardware compatibility and that’s pretty much it, because some stuff has problems even with small Linux distros.
It’s quite interesting to see people who also game on BSD by the way. Rock on!
I assumed the same as you when I tried out the BSDs. I went with FreeBSD first because I assumed that was the better supported one. Wifi was absolutely horrible on it. connection would constantly drop, or was slow, etc. on OpenBSD i haven’t had those issues. Also had a lot of issues setting up a VM on FreeBSD and getting certain USB devices to work correctly. neither of those issues on OpenBSD.
By the way, I watched a video about OpenBSD and kinda intrigued to put it on my old Thinkpad. Well, at least I’ll consider if I can make it without a headache. I have a plan to make a really minimal (and maybe secure) writing machine. :)
i use freebsd on my desktop and server. it’s pretty good. linux emulation is also capable so everything just runs!
hardware compat isn’t as great tho. my laptop randomly stutters with freebsd so i use linux instead
I heard BSD is solid as a server. The person I know had to compile everything but that was many years ago. I would assume you have binary packages as well nowadays?
I never really used BSD and I only know NetBSD a little. I’m actually curious about a NetBSD server but I’m lazy even for my desktop. And I was considering switching my Debian server to Alpine but I haven’t touched that server since 2019 aside from occasional updates, so even that’s a big step for me. I guess the more realistic standpoint is I will install Alpine when my netbook finally dies and have to replace it with another hardware. :)
yes there are binary packages available, so i just use ‘pkg install …’ like ‘apt-get install’. NetBSD also has binary packages and is pretty good. it’s all fun to use, but tbh i don’t think there’s many reasons to move away from a linux system because there’s not many clear advantages
Well, to be fair I don’t really have time to learn whole another system, even though there are many similarities. I’m just interested, as a hobby. :)
It’s good to know they have package managers like Linux though.
honestly just installing Gentoo is a great way to learn various aspects of linux. It’s a process, a lengthy one, but if you manage to install it successfully you can pretty much install any distro or BSD with absolute ease and not even think about it.
Totally agree. I installed Gentoo a couple times before (last time maybe 10 years ago though, all were stage3). I tried stage1 once and my Linux knowledge was not even good that time, so there is that. :)
Even installing it will teach you a lot of things.
Proud Gentoo user for the past 12ish years and this is the first I’ve heard of “stage 1” and “stage 2”. This explains the number for stage 3 I guess lol. Even with stage 3, and having dealt with gentoo (still my daily driver to date), I think I’ve learned more than I would have with many other distros.
Tried LFS first. Stayed with Gentoo after for the maintainability.
This and some certification guide for sles or rhel (their documentation in general is very good and thorough).