I am vegan btw but the amount of people who say apathetic shit like ‘one person can’t make a difference, it’s all the corporations fault, wah’ is honestly depressing. We get the society we ask for and until people start asking for something different nothing changes.
I have a super mixed reaction here. On one hand, it’s a good attitude as an individual to do what you can. OTOH, is it apathetic to realize that one billionaire’s private jet adds more pollution than a thousand vegans can offset by being parsimonious with their consumption?
To keep a livable Earth, we need high-level systemic change to move the needle on that dial, not just a few thousand people making extreme sacrifices (tradeoffs? I shouldn’t talk about being vegan as a sacrifice, lol) in lifestyle.
Edit: I’m thinking partly of celebrities booking commercial flights instead of flying private jets, but I’m also thinking about multinational corporations doing stupid things. CVS printing mile-long receipts, Amazon (or others) shipping tiny things in ginormous boxes, or hey, the expectation that every product on a retail shelf must be shrink-wrapped.
You have to think practically: When has systemic change ever happened without individuals choosing to make a change? Never!
It’s the same for voting, or boycotting or unionizing or even guillotining. The french kings head didn’t spontaneously fall off, it involved many individuals making a choice, risking their life and even dieing.
You’re right, the effects of individuals or even a decent sized group often pale in comparison to the effects of large scale corporations. And, I guess this is where my views probably differ from a lot of people’s, I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to not do the right thing as an individual, or at least attempt to.
I saw some Swifties do the math on how many of them going vegan it would take to offset her private jet emissions and I have no idea on the accuracy of this and honestly the whole thing sounds silly to me but it was like 70,000. That probably sounds discouraging to a lot of people but to me it’s just like small differences add up.
And I think 70,000 voices are a lot easier for a government or corporation to hear. Think of it as votes and suddenly it sounds like a pretty big deal. Big systemic changes come from lots of people rejecting the status quo, and I’d rather be one of the people rejecting it, you know?
On the human level, people won’t as capitalism is so deeply ingrained in our culture, do you drive? Stop driving you can’t because you have work that’s in the next town over? Get a job that’s closer? Stop buying non seasonal goods from your local supermarket? Stop buying random shit with air miles on it.
We can all make these changes but people won’t because our monkey brains seek the fastest root to serotonin therefore government must harshly regulate at the corporate level. Build infrastructure at the civil level.
“Harshly regulate” indeed. Governments the world over subsidise fossil fuel and multinational corpos. If they just redirected that investment towards local business and low-carbon energy and transport, we’d have a lot more carrot than stick to drive change.
I agree, and I think you’re even perhaps being a bit harsh, people can do things, but a lot of the time it’s so impractical as to not be worth considering. In a car based society it can be almost impossible to forego a car. And I certainly don’t blame anyone for doing what they need to survive or even just live comfortably.
The only thing I have an issue with is people who otherwise could, choosing inaction because ‘corporations’. Corporations are almost 100% to blame, political parties being able to take bribes/donations is one of the biggest failings of modern society and has led to so much harm it’s almost unfathomable. But I still don’t accept that as an excuse to do nothing, corporations and politicians aren’t going to change otherwise.
100%, I don’t blame the person I blame the society and the one where in focuses on importing foods and goods, chewing through fossil fuels, and we don’t get to choose where our energy comes from, we don’t get to choose where our foods come from. Company’s even set up campaigns to put the blame on the users like carbon foot print was made by shell to shift the blame to the consumer.
A world where everyone does the best they can to avoid and/or fight against bad systems is absolutely the ONLY POSSIBLE WORLD where positive change can happen.
How else would the world change if not through individuals choosing to do the right thing? Are really expecting the same people that have fucked us(rich/politicians) to spontaneously develop a conscience and change the world out of the goodness of their hearts?
Before you bring up guillotines, those ALSO require individuals to make personal choices and changes and take risks.
Have you spoken to people in your life/work about this. Words are cheap and most people will agree but they still continue to buy from Amazon, they still shop from food places that import foods, they still buy the newest cars.
But you are right that social change isn’t impossible and more and more people are becoming aware that they must make personal change.
I disagree that politicians are incapable of doing good, I’m not in america so things are different not to say they’re all good but there are MPs that try like my local, she’s helping me in setting up community gardens.
They also only ever believe that when it’s about work THEY have to do. If it’s about other people, or it’s about things that directly affects them, the tune suddenly changes.
I can’t, as an individual, end rape culture. Is that therefore an excuse to keep making rape jokes, defending rapists etc.? Obviously not, but by the logic of “people against individual change” it’s entirely logically consistent. As long as I say “rape culture bad”, I can keep supporting it. I just have to wait for magical “systemic change without individual change” to rain down from heaven.
I am vegan btw but the amount of people who say apathetic shit like ‘one person can’t make a difference, it’s all the corporations fault, wah’ is honestly depressing. We get the society we ask for and until people start asking for something different nothing changes.
I have a super mixed reaction here. On one hand, it’s a good attitude as an individual to do what you can. OTOH, is it apathetic to realize that one billionaire’s private jet adds more pollution than a thousand vegans can offset by being parsimonious with their consumption?
To keep a livable Earth, we need high-level systemic change to move the needle on that dial, not just a few thousand people making extreme sacrifices (tradeoffs? I shouldn’t talk about being vegan as a sacrifice, lol) in lifestyle.
Edit: I’m thinking partly of celebrities booking commercial flights instead of flying private jets, but I’m also thinking about multinational corporations doing stupid things. CVS printing mile-long receipts, Amazon (or others) shipping tiny things in ginormous boxes, or hey, the expectation that every product on a retail shelf must be shrink-wrapped.
You have to think practically: When has systemic change ever happened without individuals choosing to make a change? Never!
It’s the same for voting, or boycotting or unionizing or even guillotining. The french kings head didn’t spontaneously fall off, it involved many individuals making a choice, risking their life and even dieing.
Yes, that’s true. I do think we need a two-pronged approach: On the individual level, do what you can. Every little bit helps.
On the systemic level, lobby for some meaningful reforms.
But in the meantime, I think it’s rather grotesque to fantasize about murdering people. Guillotine parties have ways of spiraling out of control.
You’re right, the effects of individuals or even a decent sized group often pale in comparison to the effects of large scale corporations. And, I guess this is where my views probably differ from a lot of people’s, I don’t think that’s a good enough reason to not do the right thing as an individual, or at least attempt to.
I saw some Swifties do the math on how many of them going vegan it would take to offset her private jet emissions and I have no idea on the accuracy of this and honestly the whole thing sounds silly to me but it was like 70,000. That probably sounds discouraging to a lot of people but to me it’s just like small differences add up.
And I think 70,000 voices are a lot easier for a government or corporation to hear. Think of it as votes and suddenly it sounds like a pretty big deal. Big systemic changes come from lots of people rejecting the status quo, and I’d rather be one of the people rejecting it, you know?
On the human level, people won’t as capitalism is so deeply ingrained in our culture, do you drive? Stop driving you can’t because you have work that’s in the next town over? Get a job that’s closer? Stop buying non seasonal goods from your local supermarket? Stop buying random shit with air miles on it.
We can all make these changes but people won’t because our monkey brains seek the fastest root to serotonin therefore government must harshly regulate at the corporate level. Build infrastructure at the civil level.
“Harshly regulate” indeed. Governments the world over subsidise fossil fuel and multinational corpos. If they just redirected that investment towards local business and low-carbon energy and transport, we’d have a lot more carrot than stick to drive change.
I agree, and I think you’re even perhaps being a bit harsh, people can do things, but a lot of the time it’s so impractical as to not be worth considering. In a car based society it can be almost impossible to forego a car. And I certainly don’t blame anyone for doing what they need to survive or even just live comfortably.
The only thing I have an issue with is people who otherwise could, choosing inaction because ‘corporations’. Corporations are almost 100% to blame, political parties being able to take bribes/donations is one of the biggest failings of modern society and has led to so much harm it’s almost unfathomable. But I still don’t accept that as an excuse to do nothing, corporations and politicians aren’t going to change otherwise.
100%, I don’t blame the person I blame the society and the one where in focuses on importing foods and goods, chewing through fossil fuels, and we don’t get to choose where our energy comes from, we don’t get to choose where our foods come from. Company’s even set up campaigns to put the blame on the users like carbon foot print was made by shell to shift the blame to the consumer.
A world where everyone does the best they can to avoid and/or fight against bad systems is absolutely the ONLY POSSIBLE WORLD where positive change can happen.
How else would the world change if not through individuals choosing to do the right thing? Are really expecting the same people that have fucked us(rich/politicians) to spontaneously develop a conscience and change the world out of the goodness of their hearts?
Before you bring up guillotines, those ALSO require individuals to make personal choices and changes and take risks.
Have you spoken to people in your life/work about this. Words are cheap and most people will agree but they still continue to buy from Amazon, they still shop from food places that import foods, they still buy the newest cars.
But you are right that social change isn’t impossible and more and more people are becoming aware that they must make personal change.
I disagree that politicians are incapable of doing good, I’m not in america so things are different not to say they’re all good but there are MPs that try like my local, she’s helping me in setting up community gardens.
They also only ever believe that when it’s about work THEY have to do. If it’s about other people, or it’s about things that directly affects them, the tune suddenly changes.
I can’t, as an individual, end rape culture. Is that therefore an excuse to keep making rape jokes, defending rapists etc.? Obviously not, but by the logic of “people against individual change” it’s entirely logically consistent. As long as I say “rape culture bad”, I can keep supporting it. I just have to wait for magical “systemic change without individual change” to rain down from heaven.