Something that i find prettyd disgusting these days is how certain people put their political ideologies / viewpoints over human lives, for example, celebrating the russian invasion of ukraine because it is “a blow against US / NATO imperialism” completely ignoring all the warcrimes, the deaths, and the suffering generated by that war, the same happening with the palestinian genocide because “Israel is the only working democracy on the middle east”, acting like their ideoligies are going to bring back to life all the dead people somehow

  • chetradley@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Interesting. What do you think Ukraine should do then if not fight back against the Russian invasion?

    • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
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      10 months ago

      What India did against the British – sabotage all Russian-led businesses in Ukraine, and refuse to cooperate with the occupiers.
      It would lead to a great deal of suffering for Ukrainians, but the alternative against which this would have to be measured is the current war – with close to one million dead, several million displaced, and no resolution in sight anywhere.

      • Syndic@feddit.de
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        10 months ago

        Well Putin for sure would be happy if Ukraine would choose this path. He’s quite used to brutally squash dissidents. Russia also has absolutely no qualm to disperse a group throughout their country to destroy their cultural identity. They are already doing so with the Ukrainian children they’ve kidnapped.

        So sorry, but your proposal seems to be really naiv and not taking into account how fucking brutal Putin’s Russia is to people stepping even slightly out of line.

        • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          your proposal seems to be really naiv and not taking into account how fucking brutal Putin’s Russia is

          Pacifists are always confronted with this criticism. Every time:
          “This war is different. This war is justified, cause this attacker is truly evil. We need to stop this evil guy by all means necessary, even if it completely destroys the country we’re trying to defend and kills an entire generation of its inhabitants.”

          I’m not naive, at all. I have no illusions about Russia. I just believe there is no option available that will save Ukraine, and war is always the worst option available. No matter how justified it was in the beginning, in the end all that’s left is war.

        • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          The same thing that lead to the decolonization of almost all countries that were once occupied - it’s neither possible nor profitable to rule over a populace that hates you and doesn’t identify themselves as subjects to your rule in the long term.

          • jobby@lemmy.today
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            10 months ago

            And next up on the Disney Channel: The fall of the bad man because teh peepo don’t like him.

          • GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            it’s neither possible nor profitable to rule over a populace that hates you and doesn’t identify themselves as subjects to your rule in the long term.

            Slavery in the USA South disagrees with that. It was very possible and profitable. It would have continued but armed conflict ended that.

          • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Ah, so we should just let them attack countries until the internal problems get too big and the empire falls from within? And those countries should just suck it up in the meantime?

            • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
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              10 months ago

              Look, I have no good solution for this. No one has, the currently accepted solution is killing millions until the problem disappears behind the problems caused by the war.
              I’m not telling anyone or any country what to do. I’m just saying, I won’t ever support or participate in any war, defensive or otherwise.

              • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Look, I have no good solution for this. No one has, the currently accepted solution is killing millions until the problem disappears behind the problems caused by the war.

                No, the currently accepted solution is defending yourself against an invading force. Ukraine isn’t killing people to solve the problem, they are killing them to stop themselves from being killed.

                And what if your solution doesn’t work? What if Russia just expands and the current regime stays in power? You’ll take away the sovereignty of possibly generations of people, and continually condemning more and more to the same fate, until maybe things collapse. And even then you have no guarantee that whatever comes after the collapse is, in any way, better.

                There’s a quote on this topic that puts this into words better than I can:

                You think you’re better than everyone else, but there you stand: the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.

                • KISSmyOS@feddit.de
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                  10 months ago

                  Name one example from the past 110 years where war actually achieved the goal the “good guys” had before it started.