Exactly this. IMO, Linux won’t become widespread until it’s truly easy to use. Despite how they shit on Windows, I could count on one hand how many times I’ve needed to look up an issue I couldn’t solve myself. The same can’t be said for when I tried Ubuntu, which I had more issues with before I could even get it installed.
and then it was still another 1 in 5 chance that the solution wold work with my distro.
So basically you copy-paste commands and expect them to work like some magic spells? I think I’ve estimated your level of expertise correctly in another comment.
but I do fuckdamn expect a certain commonality between how repositories are handled which DOES NOT EXIST in the current ecosystem.
Well, combining that and
JSYK if you live anywhere in the eastern half of the U.S. it is likely that your packets are going at least partway over a cable I laid with my own hands. You can estimate my expertise any way you want but my employer’s satisfaction with my work outweighs some internet rando’s opinion of a few hundred words.
that, then I agree that Red Hat and things based on it suck, but I don’t see what does this have to do with “the current ecosystem”, because different distributions handle repositories differently.
The issue is not with Linux not being easy to use. The issue is politics.
Most of the people use their PC for browsing. Throw Linux Mint or Ubuntu on the machine (that’s the hard part for casual users), press firmware install if your wifi is not working (connect Ethernet cable), press update prompt. That’s it.
You press on Firefox, you are on the Internet. THATS IT.
I installed Mint on many old laptops. If you have problems, it’s because you are tinkering around with your system. That’s on you. Many casual users only use their browser.
I installed Mint and Ubuntu on many laptops. Elderly people I installed them for, never had any problems, even after me explicitly asking if they had any problems.
Press power on, press Firefox, press power off.
That’s nice, I’ve tried to switch at least nine times now as a seasoned IT admin that has built and administered to a minimum of 50+ linux servers
Every time I see such an argument it means that the person using it probably overestimates their expertise. I tried to switch one time and switched. Knowing nothing.
I was 16 and I wasn’t computer-savvy. It was 12 years ago, Linux users on the Web these days love to talk how easier it’s become, in my opinion it’s become harder, but that’s off topic.
Or there may be necessities you can’t fulfill with Linux, but that’s not what you are claiming.
and every time I look for solutions in the community I only get snide ‘go read a manual before I deign to help you’ comments.
Give me a specific example. And of the tone of your question too - a community is not a drop-in replacement for paid support obviously, so if there was something of the “I need” kind, possibly with that “it’s the OS’ problem and not my hands” opinion in the package, those comments would be justified.
If installing linux was just a ‘skill issue’, then why the fuck are you happy about only 4% desktop adoption rates?
Because it’s an uphill battle against monopolies. PCs mostly come with Windows preinstalled. Users mostly use the OS preinstalled. Considering that, 4% rate means that it’s more usable than MacOS. Just repeating known truths.
And why the fuck is every forum post like this filled with replies like mine about how frustrating it is to get setup?
Well, sometimes it is, and sometimes people expect something reality doesn’t deliver.
Shit son, I have still functioning keyboards older than you.
Yellow card for ageism, ha-ha.
Ok, so I was trying to get a TWAIN emulator working to talk to my all-in-one printer, printing worked fine (after 3 days of tinkering with CUPS because my specific model didn’t have an existing profile and fuck if I know about how to write one myself) but I needed the scanner and I asked in the forum for the particular emulator, I asked in several generic Ubuntu forums (the distro I was trying at the time).
Oh, so a piece of hardware the vendor of which didn’t care about Linux support. How is this an OS problem?
I obviously had that too, but I don’t get why’d you be pissed at Linux and its community if it’s a device driver problem.
That is just one example of multiple dozens of issues I’ve tried at least to get directions towards a solution.
OK, so that community we are talking about sometimes hallucinates when it comes to problems unsolvable. I had that with Windows too.
And not even the most frustrating one.
In your example the problem is with the vendor of the device.
If you had a better product than Windows, for free, everyone would use it. You don’t, and you blame everyone except yourselves.
I’ve already guessed you think that, only you don’t give any arguments supporting your opinion.
Because if I can’t use my tools with one OS, but I can with another, then the problem is with the OS that I cannot.
You’ve yourself said there’s no official driver, so the entirety of the described problem is with the hardware vendor.
Scanners are common peripherals my dude. Do you think windows would have sold if it didn’t support scanners?
Windows doesn’t even support browsers, because nobody ported Vimb to it, yet it sells.
That’s how your opinion looks, some piece of hardware without a Linux driver (drivers for Windows are, of course, made by hardware vendors) not working is somehow Linux’ fault.
I agree it’s a Linux problem, but it’s vendor’s fault. Like if someone drops a turd on your head, it’s their fault and your problem.
That last sentence made me laugh out loud and it’s spot on. The amount of reverse engineering or getting drivers to work anyway that happens on Linux is already mind boggling.
If the vendor doesn’t care, that’s just what it is.
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Exactly this. IMO, Linux won’t become widespread until it’s truly easy to use. Despite how they shit on Windows, I could count on one hand how many times I’ve needed to look up an issue I couldn’t solve myself. The same can’t be said for when I tried Ubuntu, which I had more issues with before I could even get it installed.
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So basically you copy-paste commands and expect them to work like some magic spells? I think I’ve estimated your level of expertise correctly in another comment.
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Well, combining that and
that, then I agree that Red Hat and things based on it suck, but I don’t see what does this have to do with “the current ecosystem”, because different distributions handle repositories differently.
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The issue is not with Linux not being easy to use. The issue is politics.
Most of the people use their PC for browsing. Throw Linux Mint or Ubuntu on the machine (that’s the hard part for casual users), press firmware install if your wifi is not working (connect Ethernet cable), press update prompt. That’s it.
You press on Firefox, you are on the Internet. THATS IT. I installed Mint on many old laptops. If you have problems, it’s because you are tinkering around with your system. That’s on you. Many casual users only use their browser.
I installed Mint and Ubuntu on many laptops. Elderly people I installed them for, never had any problems, even after me explicitly asking if they had any problems. Press power on, press Firefox, press power off.
Glad it works for you, but I have no interest in an OS which considers anything besides using a web browser “tinkering with my system”.
You have the ability to do anything with your system. That includes breaking it. That’s the cost of freedom.
Rather the community expels assholes saying that everything should change because they like it different. People have differing tastes in general.
I’ve switched knowing literally nothing and people have mostly been friendly.
Except for Arch users, but there’s not much sense in coming to their spaces - they are not only hostile, but also not very knowledgeable usually.
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Every time I see such an argument it means that the person using it probably overestimates their expertise. I tried to switch one time and switched. Knowing nothing.
I was 16 and I wasn’t computer-savvy. It was 12 years ago, Linux users on the Web these days love to talk how easier it’s become, in my opinion it’s become harder, but that’s off topic.
Or there may be necessities you can’t fulfill with Linux, but that’s not what you are claiming.
Give me a specific example. And of the tone of your question too - a community is not a drop-in replacement for paid support obviously, so if there was something of the “I need” kind, possibly with that “it’s the OS’ problem and not my hands” opinion in the package, those comments would be justified.
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Because it’s an uphill battle against monopolies. PCs mostly come with Windows preinstalled. Users mostly use the OS preinstalled. Considering that, 4% rate means that it’s more usable than MacOS. Just repeating known truths.
Well, sometimes it is, and sometimes people expect something reality doesn’t deliver.
Yellow card for ageism, ha-ha.
Oh, so a piece of hardware the vendor of which didn’t care about Linux support. How is this an OS problem?
I obviously had that too, but I don’t get why’d you be pissed at Linux and its community if it’s a device driver problem.
OK, so that community we are talking about sometimes hallucinates when it comes to problems unsolvable. I had that with Windows too.
In your example the problem is with the vendor of the device.
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Yes, the same correct argument.
I’ve already guessed you think that, only you don’t give any arguments supporting your opinion.
You’ve yourself said there’s no official driver, so the entirety of the described problem is with the hardware vendor.
Windows doesn’t even support browsers, because nobody ported Vimb to it, yet it sells.
That’s how your opinion looks, some piece of hardware without a Linux driver (drivers for Windows are, of course, made by hardware vendors) not working is somehow Linux’ fault.
I agree it’s a Linux problem, but it’s vendor’s fault. Like if someone drops a turd on your head, it’s their fault and your problem.
That last sentence made me laugh out loud and it’s spot on. The amount of reverse engineering or getting drivers to work anyway that happens on Linux is already mind boggling.
If the vendor doesn’t care, that’s just what it is.
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