• Maggoty@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    Yeah, but nobody here is suggesting racial criteria. This article is specifically about screening for health issues. Reading more into it, it seems like they’ve paired big data with genetic screening to lay odds on health problems that aren’t just a single gene going the wrong way.

    Edit to add, there’s no such thing as an ethical Eugenicist. The theory was based on racism and sterilizing “undesirables”. This isn’t Eugenics.

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      This isn’t Eugenics.

      There’s a debate about that ongoing, whether the word and basic idea can be divorced from its history with scientific racism. I don’t really have a skin in the game but would like to point out that psychiatry didn’t cease to be called psychiatry when we stopped physically abusing inmates, showing them off to gawkers, whatnot, got rid of phrenology, etc. You can make arguments both for “we must start from a clean slate” as well as “let’s own the bullshit of the past to have something to teach students to not do”.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        That’s because phrenoloy and the other theories are under Psychiatry and Psychology. You don’t throw out Astronomy because of Heliocentrism. Eugenics was specifically developed to produce racial outcomes. It’s a theory, not a field of science.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          It’s first and foremost a word meaning as much as “good stock”, or, more modern, “good genes”. Nazis didn’t actually use it, at least not prominently, they were all about “racial hygiene” – very different implications.

          As to “specifically developed” I’m not so sure I don’t know enough about Galton. What I do know is that he first did e.g. twin studies to figure out the relative importance of nature vs. nurture and stuff. People motivated by hate don’t tend to be that thorough meaning if he had more information he might’ve ended up on the other side of the fence but as said I don’t know nearly enough about his work to actually draw conclusions, ask a literary critic or such.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            His base assumption was something called genetic determinism. Which is exactly what it sounds like and exactly as debunked as you would think. He also tried to link body build and head measurements to genetic determinism.

            And No. The Nazis absolutely loved Eugenics. The entire Western world did. The Nazis literally made it a required subject in grade school.

            Eugenics needs to go die in a fire. There’s no need to resurrect the name or practices when we’re talking about actual genetic science.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              The Nazis absolutely loved Eugenics. The entire Western world did. The Nazis literally made it a required subject in grade school.

              I was talking about words. Said required subject was called Rassenlehre, very much not a calque of eugenics.

              There’s no need to resurrect the name or practices when we’re talking about actual genetic science.

              If anti-racist biologists want to reclaim the word, or even appropriate it as the case may be, I’m not going to call them racists over it. That needs to be judged by the practices.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Yeah that’s not whose arguing we should put call genetic modification eugenics. And the Germans didn’t use an English word? Shocking. Truly shocking.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  8 months ago

                  Yeah that’s not whose arguing we should put call genetic modification eugenics.

                  I’m sorry but that sentence doesn’t parse for me.

                  And the Germans didn’t use an English word? Shocking. Truly shocking.

                  It’s not an English but Greek word and yes it exists in German. Nazis (unsurprisingly) weren’t big on loan words but it doesn’t end there: The non-racially charged German word would be Erbgesundheitslehre, erm, “erf health lore”. Just as neutral as a term as “genome health theory” would be. But that’s not what the Nazis used, they specifically used a term that included “race”.

                  One factor that comes to mind which would make me, if I were a geneticist, argue in favour of the term would be people using the term “eugenics” to smear things like screening and IFV to get rid of Hutchinson’s. Sure the field has plenty of ethical question marks but much of it is perfectly kosher, yet there’s people who are opposed on principle and are fighting hella dirty. Re-claiming, even appropriating the term then gets you out of the defensive.

                  But, as said: I don’t have a skin in the game. As said, there’s arguments for and against.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    You really should read your own sources.

                    …or in Germany [2] mostly synonymous with racial hygiene…