Ukraine's military needs younger men not only because they are physically fitter than older men but also because they can master technology used on the battlefield faster, President Volodymyr Zelensky told French YouTuber Hugo Travers in an interview published on April 21.
What if I look at the theocratic ethno state that exists right now and listen to their leaders openly discuss how they must secure the existence of their people and a future for their jewish children by committing genocide? Cause the seems pretty nazi-like to me.
You can claim that modern Israel is a fascist state, and that fascist states behave in similar ways. However, just calling it Nazism ignores the working history of both political ideologies.
The whole point is that for one to equate Zionism to Nazism requires you to ignore decades of historical context. Furthermore, equating Ukraine to a Nazi state ignores the fact that the vast majority (up to 7 million) Ukrainians fought for the Soviet Union in WW2 against the Nazi.
Using historical factoids to shield modern Nazi states
How and who exactly am I defending?
Just because you are engaged with colonialism or genocide, as Israel is currently doing, does not mean they are “modern Nazi states”.
The Nazi did not invent these things, and generalizing every form of colonialism to equate to Nazism does nothing but excuse the hundreds of years of European imperialism that came before them, and the decades of imperialism that came after.
Again, highly reductive. This is minimalizing the hundreds of years of pogroms across Europe and Asia the Jews endured, resulting in the inception of Zionism in the 1800s.
I wonder, who wanted to give Jews Madagascar? 😲
Did you not read? I told you it was one of the Nazi schemes to answer “the Jewish problem” while stealing their wealth to redistribute among party members.
I’m not saying you can’t correctly compare aspects of Zionism to Nazi Fascism. I’m saying that you can’t equate the two to be the same thing.
Zionism’s popularity among Jewish communities in Europe didn’t become popular until the rise of Nazism in Germany. It didn’t become popular in Asia until the Soviets began forced deportations after the doctor’s plot.
Ignoring the actual historical context, just logically it’s full of internal contradictions. If Zionism predates Nazism by a hundred years, wouldn’t they be the ones who invented fascism?
You are accidentally supporting actual Nazi propaganda about the Zionist intentions for turning Germany into their new homeland.
Again, I’m not saying that I support Zionism, I don’t even support fucking borders. It’s just that if we continue utilizing Nazism for every argument, it loses it inherent meaning, thus giving cover to actual practicing Nazis.
I do however think it’s important to discus how fascist governments create fascist governments. It’s actually something Hitler and mousseline talked about, that to fight against fascism a governments only response is to become more militaristic, and thus more fascist.
I guess I made a mistake here. I’ve tried to provoke a guy who claimed that Zionism and Nazism are incompatible. Probably I’ve made this guy up myself.
You chose the word incompatible… I said they couldn’t be equated to mean the same thing.
It’s just academically dishonest to claim that Zionism, (which was largely a response to Nazism) is the same as Nazism.
If we begin to accept this definitional generalization it will come back to haunt us. What do you think the liberal world will say if Palestine were to free itself from occupation from the river to the sea?
Wouldn’t they in their retaliation be creating a nationalist ethnostate via ethnic based violence? Wouldn’t we be asking for a little context and nuance then? Or would we just check the same boxes and say they were Nazis?
Can’t wait to hear your amazing logic about how nazism and zionism are incompatible.
Well… The former is fascist state that expanded its holdings by specifically targeting the latter.
Aspects of Zionism (especially modern) can empower a fascist government, however Zionism as a whole started as a response to European racism.
You can only equate the two as the same if you ignore everything up until the 20th century.
What if I look at the theocratic ethno state that exists right now and listen to their leaders openly discuss how they must secure the existence of their people and a future for their jewish children by committing genocide? Cause the seems pretty nazi-like to me.
Again, highly reductive.
You can claim that modern Israel is a fascist state, and that fascist states behave in similar ways. However, just calling it Nazism ignores the working history of both political ideologies.
The whole point is that for one to equate Zionism to Nazism requires you to ignore decades of historical context. Furthermore, equating Ukraine to a Nazi state ignores the fact that the vast majority (up to 7 million) Ukrainians fought for the Soviet Union in WW2 against the Nazi.
Using historical factoids to shield modern Nazi states from criticism is probably the most intellectually bankrupt thing you can do. Fuck off Nazi.
How and who exactly am I defending?
Just because you are engaged with colonialism or genocide, as Israel is currently doing, does not mean they are “modern Nazi states”.
The Nazi did not invent these things, and generalizing every form of colonialism to equate to Nazism does nothing but excuse the hundreds of years of European imperialism that came before them, and the decades of imperialism that came after.
Zionism is about Jews having land. I wonder, who wanted to give Jews Madagascar? 😲
Again, highly reductive. This is minimalizing the hundreds of years of pogroms across Europe and Asia the Jews endured, resulting in the inception of Zionism in the 1800s.
Did you not read? I told you it was one of the Nazi schemes to answer “the Jewish problem” while stealing their wealth to redistribute among party members.
I’m not saying you can’t correctly compare aspects of Zionism to Nazi Fascism. I’m saying that you can’t equate the two to be the same thing.
Zionism’s popularity among Jewish communities in Europe didn’t become popular until the rise of Nazism in Germany. It didn’t become popular in Asia until the Soviets began forced deportations after the doctor’s plot.
Ignoring the actual historical context, just logically it’s full of internal contradictions. If Zionism predates Nazism by a hundred years, wouldn’t they be the ones who invented fascism?
You are accidentally supporting actual Nazi propaganda about the Zionist intentions for turning Germany into their new homeland.
Again, I’m not saying that I support Zionism, I don’t even support fucking borders. It’s just that if we continue utilizing Nazism for every argument, it loses it inherent meaning, thus giving cover to actual practicing Nazis.
I do however think it’s important to discus how fascist governments create fascist governments. It’s actually something Hitler and mousseline talked about, that to fight against fascism a governments only response is to become more militaristic, and thus more fascist.
I guess I made a mistake here. I’ve tried to provoke a guy who claimed that Zionism and Nazism are incompatible. Probably I’ve made this guy up myself.
Borders were a mistake for humanity
You chose the word incompatible… I said they couldn’t be equated to mean the same thing.
It’s just academically dishonest to claim that Zionism, (which was largely a response to Nazism) is the same as Nazism.
If we begin to accept this definitional generalization it will come back to haunt us. What do you think the liberal world will say if Palestine were to free itself from occupation from the river to the sea?
Wouldn’t they in their retaliation be creating a nationalist ethnostate via ethnic based violence? Wouldn’t we be asking for a little context and nuance then? Or would we just check the same boxes and say they were Nazis?