There will be no surprised Pikachu faces because anyone out there protesting values innocent human lives more than a suspension, expulsion, or unjust criminal charges unto them.
Your question gets deflected because it isn’t asked in good faith. (Read: you’re not good at trolling.)
Our comment thread is about you not understanding what a protest is, why people do it, and the societal function it serves.
Your inability to stick to that topic in this thread is yours to own and no one else’s. It is you failing to stay in topic.
Your whining about topics I am not discussing with you is more logical fallacy, which makes everything you say thereafter have less credibility to everyone who sees it. This is why you will end up with a righteous amount of downvotes.
I wouldn’t bother responding to this, unless that’s some kind ego thing you can’t ignore. I certainly won’t be reading anything more from you.
I’m not even going to read your answer because I can tell it is in bad faith. Simple question requires a simple answer but I can tell by your wall of text you are avoiding the question. A simple no will stop you from embarrassing yourself further
Palestine is not Hamas. Can you imagine what it would be like for those who live in the US if everyone were held guilty of crimes the US has committed against the world?
Hamas killed 1200 civilians. They would have killed more if they could have. The missiles stop when Hamas leaders are dead. Give them up.
It’s cute that you think there are rules here. These holy wars have never adhered to the Geneva convention. Why would they start now? Hamas could have targeted Military, a noble endeavor, but instead they attacked civilians at a hippie concert.
I’m not entirely sure you understand how war works. Just because you’re losing doesn’t mean you’re the victim. They can end it if they surrender Hamas. It’s not edgy, is just how it is and always has been.
Sleeping on the floor of a lecture hall isn’t going to change anything. The right has propagandized this war to steer voters away from Biden you’re all falling for it. The battle for Gaza and Jew/Muslim Israel/Palestine wars have gone on for centuries. Let them do what they’ve always done.
I don’t like the killing of civilians but there’s no front line. Hamas soldiers wear civilian clothes. Israel also doesn’t give a fuck. Surrender is the only optics the world will respond to. If they surrender Hamas, and Israel continues their barrage, then we should take action against Israel.
If you want to protest, support Palestinian businesses and boycott Israeli ones. This actually works.
You don’t have a real response to my position so you immediately go off topic and begin personal insults. This tells me that you don’t have an actual position here. /out
Hey, if they want to lump innocent people in with the actions of their government, then I’m ok with that as long as they apply it to the Israeli population as well. The only question is, how do they think we should punish innocent Israelis for what their right-wing government is doing?
Oh wait, they wouldn’t like that because most Israelis aren’t Arab. How could I forget.
Well 1200 or so Israeli’s died from the Hamas terrorist attack on October 7, and so far Israel has retaliated 30 fold by killing about 32,500 Palestinians. If the Palestinians were to respond in kind that would be about 975,000 Israeli’s.
Yes they attacked a wealthy nation where it’s mandatory for every citizen joins the military for 32 months. It was beyond stupid.
Condemn the actions of Hamas and surrender the locations of the Hamas leaders and Israel may stop the attacks. However, this foolish war Hamas started/escalated may have just cost the Palestinian people Gaza.
What part of stop the genocide are you not hearing?
Israel is committing genocide. You don’t get to make demands when you are committing genocide.
I condemn the genocide.
You are very clueless.
You have been brainwashed my friend. Good luck to you.
If Israel takes over Gaza I am fairly certain the Israeli state will cease to exist within our lifetimes. The world knows that Israel is in the wrong here.
At what point exactly did it go from retaliation strike to genocide? When the US dropped nukes on Japan was it Genocide as well? Give up Hamas and any hostages and Israel will have no justification to continue destroying Gaza. It’s common sense. Civilians die when their terrorist government hides behind them.
I’m convinced you’re a shill trying to turn young democrats away from voting for Biden. Nobody can look at the images from October 7th and act so clueless as to why Israel might be fucking pissed off and want to level Gaza and everyone in it.
Keep in mind the Israelites have actually been the victims of attempted genocide probably more than any other people.
I don’t think the US should send any more artillery to Israel. But if you’re suggesting we get involved, get a fucking clue. I’m done sending Americans to fight and die in ancient holy wars.
At what point did you ever question your strong belief that the occupation in Gaza and the West Bank should end?
I assume never.
I’m convinced you are arguing in bad faith. I’m sorry, but there never has nor will there ever be a good valid and moral reason to level an occupied territory killing over 30,000 civilians in less than a year.
Keep in mind there is never a good excuse for genocide, even more so if your people have been the attempted victims of genocide.
I’m suggesting we stop giving Israel offensive weapons.
Vote your conscious, I would never in a million years vote for Trump but as it stands I will not vote for Biden. I voted for Obama twice.
Gaza inhabitant are under blockade and mistreated … The Israel government favorised hamas against fatah for a long time (and the current Israel president assumed it).
There is apartheid in Israel and the retake of Gaza would have happened without the 7 October.
I hope you say thar because you just don’t know how to act while thousand of civilians are being killed and you try to find a reason to ignore it so you can sleep.
So to be clear. Israel is only allowed to kill 1200 people? Anything more and they are somehow morally inferior to Hamas who broke a long standing cease fire so they could take the opportunity to rampage through civilian towns and going on a killing spree of innocent civilians. It’s so fucking insane. If only you could hear yourselves through the hypocrisy. Both sides suck.
Israel has claimed to be the most moral army in the world.
If you are now comparing the IDF to a terrorist organization, then I understand why…. It’s because Israeli government and the IDF are a genocidal regime.
I mean, does it really make a difference? I agree that more things like this should be protested. But even if you think they’re hypocrites that doesn’t mean they’re wrong now. Put it this way: if they had protested the Saudis, would this protest be totally cool with you?
And obviously the answer is because their university and government are backing and funding this one. If you can’t see the difference in relevance to the average American you have a serious problem.
I can’t speak for the universities, but by many standards the involvement of the US military was a lot larger.
Asides from supplying weapons and intelligence, they were participating in the naval blockade and flying air tankers to help the genocide. 380k dead, that’s 10 times as much as what’s reported from Gaza.
And sure, it was bad, but I think the above poster as well as myself want to make the point that it’s quite arbitrary to take such risks to protest this conflict in particular. I assume most of the protestors have been Kony’d into thinking that this conflict is somehow very special and worth risking their future for.
That said, I think they should be free to do so peacefully and the fucks who are doxxing them should swing
That’s a good point, we should be ending our relationship with both Israel and the Saudis! Both countries are constantly violating established human rights, according to international law.
So let’s say the protest works. There’s a cease fire. Good job everyone. So smart and ethically superior.
Now that you’ve all made the world a better place, what is going to happen to the innocent Israeli hostages that Hamas has?
What will happen if Hamas continue to fire rockets into Israel? Like they always have?
If you can’t answer these questions it’s not really because you can’t, it’s because you won’t. It’s a bad faith discussion.
I’m assuming you’re ok with Hamas stealing and diverting the international aid that was intended for improving the lives of Palestinians and diverting it themselves and buying rockets and launching more October 7th style attacks in the future.
I’m sure you’ve all thought this through like the smart people you are.
Hamas likely will keep firing rockets, as killing thousands of children will tend to make their fathers turn pro-Hamas.
It seems to me that you think that whilst the hostages are not returned then the killing should continue, is that right?
As for the rest of your points, yes I have thought about them, no I don’t support Hamas. Someone that can put it better than me is Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish man and arguably the foremost expert on the conflict and certainly the most well read. You should check him out if you really are open to listening to a counter argument to the msm.
Will do. And yes I think the innocent civilian hostages should be returned before the attack on the people who kidnapped them and killed 1800 others still exist. In the Lemmy bubble the hostages are non existent for some reason? Probably because innocent people can’t kidnap and murder other innocent people. The other thing is Hamas must be destroyed. Hamas broke the cease fire. They knew this would happen. They happily used the innocent Palestinians as collateral to advance their own cause.
Do I think a genocide is even taking place? Yes and no. I think there have been some poor actions taken by a small number of idf personal who probably want a genocide, I think this is the exception not the rule, this is normal (not right) for every war. Do I support a genocide? Fuck no. The problem that Israel has is they are fighting an enemy that has many shades of grey. Hamas must be destroyed. The Palestine people have strong support for Hamas which also means they likely support what Hamas did on October 7th. Many may be indirectly helping Hamas - even if they fall just short of picking up a gun or deploying an ied themselves. Should these people be spared?
I am fully aware of the 1800 innocent hostages. I just don’t think the deaths of 30,000 innocent Palestinians is acceptable and I think anybody that doesn’t is deplorable.
I don’t need lemmy for my morals mate. I was born this way, I find it staggering that people like you will justify these abhorrent acts.
As for a few rogue units, the ICC is rumoured to be issuing an arrest warrant for Bibi.
There will be no surprised Pikachu faces because anyone out there protesting values innocent human lives more than a suspension, expulsion, or unjust criminal charges unto them.
I think you might not get protesting.
Did Hamas value innocent human lives on October 7th?
See, I still don’t see you getting the whole protesting thing, here.
Let’s not try and pigeon-hole our way out of making ourselves look dumb by making ourselves look dumber, now…
Why does this type of question get deflected? Do you support what Hamas did on October 8? Person who values innocent lives
Your question gets deflected because it isn’t asked in good faith. (Read: you’re not good at trolling.)
Our comment thread is about you not understanding what a protest is, why people do it, and the societal function it serves.
Your inability to stick to that topic in this thread is yours to own and no one else’s. It is you failing to stay in topic.
Your whining about topics I am not discussing with you is more logical fallacy, which makes everything you say thereafter have less credibility to everyone who sees it. This is why you will end up with a righteous amount of downvotes.
I wouldn’t bother responding to this, unless that’s some kind ego thing you can’t ignore. I certainly won’t be reading anything more from you.
Damn son
That’s what I said!
I’m not even going to read your answer because I can tell it is in bad faith. Simple question requires a simple answer but I can tell by your wall of text you are avoiding the question. A simple no will stop you from embarrassing yourself further
lol knew it
no u
lol
So did I
Palestine is not Hamas. Can you imagine what it would be like for those who live in the US if everyone were held guilty of crimes the US has committed against the world?
Then condemn the actions of Hamas and assist Israel in bringing their leaders and soldiers to justice.
Hamas blew up some shit and now Israel is conducting a genocide and you’re like “RAH RAH GENOCIDE!”.
Hamas killed 1200 civilians. They would have killed more if they could have. The missiles stop when Hamas leaders are dead. Give them up.
It’s cute that you think there are rules here. These holy wars have never adhered to the Geneva convention. Why would they start now? Hamas could have targeted Military, a noble endeavor, but instead they attacked civilians at a hippie concert.
Israel has genocided 35,000 innocent Palestinians, mostly children. Stop being edgy and learn to experience empathy.
I’m not entirely sure you understand how war works. Just because you’re losing doesn’t mean you’re the victim. They can end it if they surrender Hamas. It’s not edgy, is just how it is and always has been.
Sleeping on the floor of a lecture hall isn’t going to change anything. The right has propagandized this war to steer voters away from Biden you’re all falling for it. The battle for Gaza and Jew/Muslim Israel/Palestine wars have gone on for centuries. Let them do what they’ve always done.
I don’t like the killing of civilians but there’s no front line. Hamas soldiers wear civilian clothes. Israel also doesn’t give a fuck. Surrender is the only optics the world will respond to. If they surrender Hamas, and Israel continues their barrage, then we should take action against Israel.
If you want to protest, support Palestinian businesses and boycott Israeli ones. This actually works.
You don’t have a real response to my position so you immediately go off topic and begin personal insults. This tells me that you don’t have an actual position here. /out
Did the average civilian just living their life have anything to do with it?
Maybe we should ask civilian Shani Nicole Louk.
Oh but we can’t because her naked corpse was last seen in the back of a Hamas fighter’s truck being spit on by dozens of cheering Palestinians.
That image will haunt me the rest of my life. I can’t Imagine the rage born within an Israeli from that absolutely vile video.
Hey, if they want to lump innocent people in with the actions of their government, then I’m ok with that as long as they apply it to the Israeli population as well. The only question is, how do they think we should punish innocent Israelis for what their right-wing government is doing?
Oh wait, they wouldn’t like that because most Israelis aren’t Arab. How could I forget.
Well 1200 or so Israeli’s died from the Hamas terrorist attack on October 7, and so far Israel has retaliated 30 fold by killing about 32,500 Palestinians. If the Palestinians were to respond in kind that would be about 975,000 Israeli’s.
Yes they attacked a wealthy nation where it’s mandatory for every citizen joins the military for 32 months. It was beyond stupid.
Condemn the actions of Hamas and surrender the locations of the Hamas leaders and Israel may stop the attacks. However, this foolish war Hamas started/escalated may have just cost the Palestinian people Gaza.
What part of stop the genocide are you not hearing?
Israel is committing genocide. You don’t get to make demands when you are committing genocide.
I condemn the genocide.
You are very clueless. You have been brainwashed my friend. Good luck to you.
If Israel takes over Gaza I am fairly certain the Israeli state will cease to exist within our lifetimes. The world knows that Israel is in the wrong here.
At what point exactly did it go from retaliation strike to genocide? When the US dropped nukes on Japan was it Genocide as well? Give up Hamas and any hostages and Israel will have no justification to continue destroying Gaza. It’s common sense. Civilians die when their terrorist government hides behind them.
I’m convinced you’re a shill trying to turn young democrats away from voting for Biden. Nobody can look at the images from October 7th and act so clueless as to why Israel might be fucking pissed off and want to level Gaza and everyone in it.
Keep in mind the Israelites have actually been the victims of attempted genocide probably more than any other people.
I don’t think the US should send any more artillery to Israel. But if you’re suggesting we get involved, get a fucking clue. I’m done sending Americans to fight and die in ancient holy wars.
At what point did you ever question your strong belief that the occupation in Gaza and the West Bank should end?
I assume never.
I’m convinced you are arguing in bad faith. I’m sorry, but there never has nor will there ever be a good valid and moral reason to level an occupied territory killing over 30,000 civilians in less than a year.
Keep in mind there is never a good excuse for genocide, even more so if your people have been the attempted victims of genocide.
I’m suggesting we stop giving Israel offensive weapons.
Vote your conscious, I would never in a million years vote for Trump but as it stands I will not vote for Biden. I voted for Obama twice.
Gaza inhabitant are under blockade and mistreated … The Israel government favorised hamas against fatah for a long time (and the current Israel president assumed it).
There is apartheid in Israel and the retake of Gaza would have happened without the 7 October.
I hope you say thar because you just don’t know how to act while thousand of civilians are being killed and you try to find a reason to ignore it so you can sleep.
So to be clear. Israel is only allowed to kill 1200 people? Anything more and they are somehow morally inferior to Hamas who broke a long standing cease fire so they could take the opportunity to rampage through civilian towns and going on a killing spree of innocent civilians. It’s so fucking insane. If only you could hear yourselves through the hypocrisy. Both sides suck.
2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians in a long time, and that was before October. There was no ceasefire.
Come on dude stop being a dolt.
Israel has claimed to be the most moral army in the world.
If you are now comparing the IDF to a terrorist organization, then I understand why…. It’s because Israeli government and the IDF are a genocidal regime.
I’m not. It’s super fucked up. How exactly does more innocent people dying help?
Hamas not valuing human life = bad, evil people
Israel not valuing human life = totally reasonable and good behaviour
You wouldn’t recognise consistency if it was banging out a 4/4 beat on your nutsack
You clearly don’t
If that’s really true, why weren’t they protesting when the saudis were bombing the hell out of Yemen?
Whatabout whatabout whatabout.
Jfc read a list before trying to argue with people. You’re embarrassing yourself.
I mean, does it really make a difference? I agree that more things like this should be protested. But even if you think they’re hypocrites that doesn’t mean they’re wrong now. Put it this way: if they had protested the Saudis, would this protest be totally cool with you?
And obviously the answer is because their university and government are backing and funding this one. If you can’t see the difference in relevance to the average American you have a serious problem.
Their government and (probably) university were backing the other one as well
But obviously not to the same extent. And I’m sure we can agree that that was a bad thing to do
I can’t speak for the universities, but by many standards the involvement of the US military was a lot larger.
Asides from supplying weapons and intelligence, they were participating in the naval blockade and flying air tankers to help the genocide. 380k dead, that’s 10 times as much as what’s reported from Gaza.
And sure, it was bad, but I think the above poster as well as myself want to make the point that it’s quite arbitrary to take such risks to protest this conflict in particular. I assume most of the protestors have been Kony’d into thinking that this conflict is somehow very special and worth risking their future for.
That said, I think they should be free to do so peacefully and the fucks who are doxxing them should swing
Is your position that US support for Israel is the same as for the Saudis?
Of course not
In Yemen they were practically throwing the bombs themselves
And this is one major reason the level of outrage and protest is different.
Fueled by propaganda using this as a wedge issue to get Trump elected.
You pointed at another bad thing and somehow that means that we shouldn’t care about this bad thing?
That’s a good point, we should be ending our relationship with both Israel and the Saudis! Both countries are constantly violating established human rights, according to international law.
Thank you correct. At least you’re consistent
The US doesn’t finance Saudis bombing Yemen.
They sell them the bombs don’t they?
So disingenuous as you know that you’d be against people protesting that too.
So let’s say the protest works. There’s a cease fire. Good job everyone. So smart and ethically superior.
Now that you’ve all made the world a better place, what is going to happen to the innocent Israeli hostages that Hamas has?
What will happen if Hamas continue to fire rockets into Israel? Like they always have?
If you can’t answer these questions it’s not really because you can’t, it’s because you won’t. It’s a bad faith discussion.
I’m assuming you’re ok with Hamas stealing and diverting the international aid that was intended for improving the lives of Palestinians and diverting it themselves and buying rockets and launching more October 7th style attacks in the future.
I’m sure you’ve all thought this through like the smart people you are.
I would expect them to returned, post haste.
Hamas likely will keep firing rockets, as killing thousands of children will tend to make their fathers turn pro-Hamas.
It seems to me that you think that whilst the hostages are not returned then the killing should continue, is that right?
As for the rest of your points, yes I have thought about them, no I don’t support Hamas. Someone that can put it better than me is Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish man and arguably the foremost expert on the conflict and certainly the most well read. You should check him out if you really are open to listening to a counter argument to the msm.
Will do. And yes I think the innocent civilian hostages should be returned before the attack on the people who kidnapped them and killed 1800 others still exist. In the Lemmy bubble the hostages are non existent for some reason? Probably because innocent people can’t kidnap and murder other innocent people. The other thing is Hamas must be destroyed. Hamas broke the cease fire. They knew this would happen. They happily used the innocent Palestinians as collateral to advance their own cause.
Do I think a genocide is even taking place? Yes and no. I think there have been some poor actions taken by a small number of idf personal who probably want a genocide, I think this is the exception not the rule, this is normal (not right) for every war. Do I support a genocide? Fuck no. The problem that Israel has is they are fighting an enemy that has many shades of grey. Hamas must be destroyed. The Palestine people have strong support for Hamas which also means they likely support what Hamas did on October 7th. Many may be indirectly helping Hamas - even if they fall just short of picking up a gun or deploying an ied themselves. Should these people be spared?
I am fully aware of the 1800 innocent hostages. I just don’t think the deaths of 30,000 innocent Palestinians is acceptable and I think anybody that doesn’t is deplorable.
I don’t need lemmy for my morals mate. I was born this way, I find it staggering that people like you will justify these abhorrent acts.
As for a few rogue units, the ICC is rumoured to be issuing an arrest warrant for Bibi.