• dzsimbo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    13 days ago

    It feels a bit disingenuous to hear the following:

    to engage in productive conversation with Marxists.

    I mean I got your point the other day, that I shouldn’t necessarrily argue about Communistic dogma without reading all the literature, but I had to fight tooth and nail to get to that point and not just be waved away as a bad faith actor. So I was already working hard just to be told to go and read up.

    OP is using the same intensity hammer you guys got going on over there. Is it fair?

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      13 days ago

      I don’t remember having this convo with you, so I don’t have any reference for that convo. OP is misrepresenting the Marxist stance. It’s one thing to critique the genuine positions Marxists have, it’s another entirely to invent a strawman to argue against. The intensity of the argument isn’t the problem, the illegitimacy of the argument is.

      • dzsimbo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        13 days ago

        The intensity of the argument isn’t the problem, the illegitimacy of the argument is.

        Yeah, I know OP is trolling. I see it is causing calls to not pull apart. Sure, maybe not every thread goes for the jugular on the hex server, but it fept by going against the grain I was a pariah immediately.

        I mean at the end of the day it is petty squabbles on the internet, I just feel that we’re missing out if we don’t make a connection. Like, you seem smart, well read, and have a pretty novel world view that would interest me. I grew up in the context that communism is not of the devil, so it was terribbly disjarring that I finally saw a safe space to talk about the fallies of communism with hobby scientists on the matter.

        I dunno, maybe I was devil’s advocating and triggered a healthy response. It still feels off that I felt shut up there and now I see members of that community pleading for more open communication here.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          13 days ago

          Hexbear is a space for communists and anarchists to hang out, and there’s a culture of cedeing no ground to ill-informed takes in order to help protect that space in a deeply anticommunist English-speaking internet. There’s a strong culture of requiring well-sourced, developed, and informed takes in order to go against the grain.

          The reason OP is coming under attack is because it’s obviously just left-punching and baiting a response, and the post itself is ill-informed and misrepresentative.

          I suggest that if you want to learn more on Hexbear, you try to use more open language. I see in that thread when you tried to be more clear that you aren’t just another anti-communist, you got kinder responses.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          13 days ago

          Oh, good catch!

          I sure do love being treated like I’m a part of a hivemind, and that everyone on Hexbear is interchangeable with no individual characteristics… 🫠 /s

          Seriously though, I thought that was an odd statement, but that makes sense.

          • dzsimbo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            13 days ago

            Yup, that was me. Sorry for mixing you up. I guess you spoke to me like a human there first, that’s why your name stuck.

            I feel it still doesn’t take away too much from my argument. While OP’s post is outright malicious and is meant to start a fight, I wasn’t doing that on what I thought was a proper place for discussion.

            Again, I don’t want to jump to conclusions, and I did make a mistake, but don’t you see what I’m trying to get at?

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              13 days ago

              Personally, I try my best to adhere to the principle of “no investigation, no right to speak.” I’m not perfect at that, but I do my best. Someone who has a strong stance on a subject without doing the due dilligence to justify that strong stance muddies the water. I believe you were guilty of it over in that thread, and I believe OP is guilty of it here. Does that make sense?

              • dzsimbo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                13 days ago

                Goodness, does it ever.

                But my problem was that the group put me in a box. Nobody wanted to know my level of education, just if I read this or that book on communism.

                It is a totally fair reason not to engage in argument. It’s just… How can I put it…? Just because I didn’t read a book, I can’t be knowledgable on a subject?

                My guesses are that your community is so exposed to bad faith arguments, so you cannot give everyone the time of day. I haven’t gone back to reread the thread, but you can probably see how I was basically backing into a corner through the whole thread.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  13 days ago

                  It’s a combination of Hexbear having a higher population of well-read communists and anarchists than most instances, and your guess that there are so many bad-faith responses that they are quickly shut down. Hexbear also doesn’t have downvotes, so people are forced to actually reply if they want to express why they disagree.

                  As I said in the other comment, once you stepped back and clarified your position more, you were treated better.