• Plume (She/Her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    119
    arrow-down
    13
    ·
    8 months ago

    On one hand, you have people who are mostly comfortable with letting Palestinians die. On the other, people who openly talk about nuking them.

    You have a group of people who may be willing to throw minorities under the bus. And you have another group that is waiting for the opportunity to do so and make it law.

    Both choices are terrible, I agree, but there is one that is a clear better over the other. It sucks, but you have to accept that it’s the way it is for now and you are not going to pull some third party out of your ass. That is going to have to wait for now. You have to make a decision between the lesser of two evils.

    I’m counting on you, Americans. As a trans woman from a European country which political climate is heavily influenced by yours, I can quite confidently say that my rights are in your hands.

    Quite frankly, I can’t think of a more terrifying thought, but it is what it is.

    Don’t fuck this up. Please.

    • Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      44
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      I know as Americans we consider ourselves the center of the universe but this is one of those things that warrant it.

      With Trump’s last win we saw Argentina, Belarus, Brazil, Philippines, Australia, and Italy (just naming a few) in power crazy nut jobs. Attacking your community, immigrants, and the poor bc the US had someone spouting shit daily and being racist/anti immigrant was openly supported. It is like a virus, it spreads.

      I hope we crush is attempt to be president again but you never know. We need the young people and millennials to vote. It’s hard though.

      Stay safe and I hope we have a bright future to look forward too.

      • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        23
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        8 months ago

        I know as Americans we consider ourselves the center of the universe but this is one of those things that warrant it.

        With Trump’s last win we saw Argentina, Belarus, Brazil, Philippines, Australia, and Italy (just naming a few) in power crazy nut jobs.

        If you argument is that US presidents set global trends than see exhibit a) Palestinians for the future of how the U.S. and other western countries will treat their citizens and how institutional power will utterly deny it the entire time.

        If Biden does not stop this genocide now a new era of violence is being normalized and in conjunction with climate change destroying food security and access to clean water it is going to be very very dark.

        If Biden does not budge on Palestine even though there is a strong and clear signal from the American people to do so than we have already lost and people upset at me for not not voting for Biden (if he continues to refuse to budge) are yelling into the void.

        • Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          8 months ago

          If Biden does not budge on Palestine even though there is a strong and clear signal from the American people to do so than we have already lost and people upset at me for not not voting for Biden (if he continues to refuse to budge) are yelling into the void.

          I agree we have a lot of issues but we can fix them if we decide to. I could agree that the Vietnam war / civil rights period was worse. We pulled ourselves out of that but we failed to learn from it. People got complainant and money started to flow so everyone accepted it.

          By not voting we will see something worse. The Republicans have said multiple times they want to wipe the Palestinians off the earth. They want Russia to succeed in Ukraine. Civil rights wiped away. The environment set on fire. That is a lot worse than now.

          Putting our hands up and saying nothing can be done is a farce. By doing nothing we are complicit. Vite like people’s lives are on the line bc they are. Next election vote for a local candidate with more “extreme”(national healthcare , universal schooling, climate protection plans…etc) views. That is how you change stuff. You keep doing that until the top is like the bottom.

          • beardown@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            7 months ago

            Next election vote for a local candidate with more “extreme”(national healthcare , universal schooling, climate protection plans…etc) views. That is how you change stuff.

            Is that how the United States was created?

            • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              7 months ago

              The United States was created because there was no democratic representation for the US colonies in Britain’s parliament, genius.

        • Optional@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          8 months ago

          If Biden does not stop this genocide now a new era of violence is being normalized and in conjunction with climate change destroying food security and access to clean water it is going to be very very dark.

          Are you worried about Biden winning? This is not even a question. Understand everything you wrote there is 1000x worse under trump. The things you’re talking about fixing can only happen under Biden.

          Seriously, it’s no joke that it’s exactly the same message as russian propaganda to say ‘biden loves genocide, don’t vote’. If anyone thinks that’s actually the path to a better tomorrow they’re useful idiots.

        • daltotron@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          7 months ago

          new era of violence is being normalized

          I dunno it seems pretty much the same as the old era of violence to me, where Israel was still occupying the region and still doing a genocide and a million Iraqis died in a meaningless war for oil rights to avoid gas prices climbing by 5 bucks

        • 😈MedicPig🐷BabySaver😈@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          22
          arrow-down
          17
          ·
          8 months ago

          Those things you mention WILL GET WORSE under Trump.

          Not voting Biden is a vote for Trump. Your protest WILL fuck things up.

          Get off your high horse and vote Biden.

    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      8 months ago

      the american votership is very emotional. they don’t think about the future. they vote how we feel right now.

      hence why we are like this. biden will lose if the is a economic downturn, for example.

    • The Uncanny Observer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      8 months ago

      No matter who wins this November, Palestinians are still going to suffer from this genocide, because neither side is going to stop Israel. It’s not going to be better or worse with Trump, because those people are still going to be dead, and the only difference is how long they have to suffer before they die. Arguing over which death is more humane is shockingly immoral of us.

      As Americans, we don’t get to absolve ourselves from that guilt by voting for Biden. We’re directly responsible for allowing our nation to come to the point where this is our only choices. Israel may be dropping the bombs, but it’s America that’s killing them. We’re voting for the lesser evil, but evil is still evil, it’s all the same, and you and I, and every other American, are guilty as hell for it. We’re all mass murderers, and we’re all sleeping soundly at night.

      Because we voted for the lesser evil.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        8 months ago

        it’s not going to be better or worse with Trump,

        It’s not going to be better or worse with the guy who wants them to ‘finish the job’ and famously broke with even usual conservative orthodoxy to support Israeli genocide?

        • The Uncanny Observer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          8 months ago

          Whether it’s the guy who wants them to kill every Palestinian, or the guy who is gonna sit there and let them kill every Palestinian while wringing his hands and reaffirming the unconditional support for Israel, the Palestinians are still dead and murdered. The fact that you’re arguing that one side is better is absolutely fucking absurd.

      • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        yeah and? so what?

        should i vote for the greater evil?

        if kill 20 people, i might as well kill 2000 right, what’s really the difference?

      • fosho@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        7 months ago

        that’s… not how it works. your vote is not an endorsement. plenty of people will openly protest against support of Israel while voting for Biden. you can actually break it down to pragmatic logic instead of the entirely incorrect broad strokes that you have done.

        also your take smells like bot farm propaganda.

      • A'random Guy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        Congratulations you’ve been re programmed by tiktok to think cheetoman is the same as sleepyjoe

        • The Uncanny Observer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          Biden is actively sending more weapons to Israel right this moment. The difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump hasn’t gotten a chance to actively participate and support genocide yet, and Biden has not only done that, but continues to express unwavering support for that genocide. So you’re right, Biden and Trump aren’t the same. They might be, if Trump wins this November, but right now Biden is objectively worse.

    • misanthropy@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      33
      arrow-down
      41
      ·
      8 months ago

      Nah. I voted for the lesser evil my whole life and the DNC decided they get to decide the president rather than the people.

      Burn it all

        • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          30
          arrow-down
          14
          ·
          8 months ago

          No, no, I’ve been assured that Trump was no worse than any other president, it’s all the same, you see. Both Sides!

      • thedirtyknapkin@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        33
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        that’s nice if you actually burn anything. if you just don’t vote then you’re just going to get stomped by fascists. either you actually commit to that level of action or you get rolled by those that do.

        that’s just an empty welcome to the fascists of it’s not backed by meaningful planned action. the only way what you said will work is of you’re ready to fucking go the second trump wins. he’s not leaving otherwise. so either you’re in a militia or you’re pathetic and part of the problem.

        • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          8 months ago

          amen. that’s why the left is so bad, politically, and the right is, well better. they whine but keep voting. the leftists just whine and do nothing and get mad that the guy they didn’t vote for didn’t win.

          • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            7 months ago

            Literally every grievance they have can be answered with “well then why didn’t you vote in where a candidate who would have answered that grievance if not built momentum towards one who would was running?”

            If they spent a percent of the energy voting that they did whining about why they don’t want to, Bernie would have won the 2016 primary handily, along with a slate of progressive challengers at his back.

      • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 months ago

        DNC decided they get to decide the president rather than the people

        I’m sorry which side of that debate says we should have counted donations instead of the actual votes?

        All but outright saying “only the bougie white kids should count at the polls!” and yet somehow the DNC are the ones who are the threats to democracy and subverting the will of the people because they checks notes counted the ballots cast for all the candidates in the race.

        Just about figures that the “voting bad!” screechers think that voting in the primary is somehow putting the fix in.

      • Plume (She/Her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        21
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        8 months ago

        Hey, if you’d rather have the Republicans open fascists in power, you do you. I question your survival instincts, but still. I just hope you’re just a tiny vocal minority, otherwise we might be all fucked. Or, if you’re not a vocal minority… well, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.

        We’ll see I guess.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            34
            arrow-down
            19
            ·
            8 months ago

            I love it. It doesn’t matter that Biden has consistently supported trans rights with tangible action during his administration, trans people are still under attack, so it’s Literally All The Same. Like people who ask why there are still fires if there are firefighters.

            • whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              25
              arrow-down
              24
              ·
              8 months ago

              The tangible actions he waited until his final year of the term to enact, that are instantly being challenged by states. That’s not consistent and it’s hardly tangible. You’re not going to tell me that my own struggles are worth ignoring a genocide.

              • TheFonz@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                18
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                8 months ago

                So which is it? He hasn’t done anything or he waited too long in his term? How does any of this even compare to the other guy??? Sometimes I wonder if you guys are smoking shrooms because you make no sense

                  • TheFonz@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    16
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    7 months ago

                    Even if it was “barely anything” which is not true, how is the alternative better? Address the points without the unnecessary banter.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                18
                arrow-down
                16
                ·
                8 months ago

                The tangible actions he waited until his final year of the term to enact,

                It’s funny. I’ve had this song and dance before. When I break out previous actions towards guaranteeing trans rights, it immediately shifts from “It was too late in his term” to “Well it wasn’t enough”.

      • Liz@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Assertion: You live in an entrenched two party system.

        Scenario: Only concerning ourselves with voting, which party do you vote for?

        I bring this up as a person in America who has beliefs that do not fit into either of the two parties. Some of my preferred policies are backed by one party, some are backed by the other, some are backed by neither.

        I take action beyond voting like working to switch the voting system to approval voting, but I’m going to limit the discussion to voting because that’s the bare minimum everyone should do and your vote won’t be contextualized by the candidates, it will look identical to all the other votes.

          • Liz@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            7 months ago

            A reasonable guess, but no. My politics aren’t relevant, I’m asking you who you’re gonna vote for.

            • whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              13
              ·
              edit-2
              7 months ago

              Your politics are relevant because if you think that Republicans/Democrats both have enticing policies, your values are so so far from mine that we don’t have the same political goals. So I won’t be engaging in conversation with you as if we did.

              • Liz@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                7 months ago

                There are many political tools at your disposal. Voting is one of them. Not voting does not affect change. Unless your political views are “I don’t give a shit” voting is a positive use of your time even if you’re doing other things outside of voting.

                So again I ask: who are you voting for?

                • whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  7 months ago

                  I never said I wasn’t voting, but also I totally understand why many people do not. I already told you I don’t want to chat about this, because I think you and I aren’t aligned whatsoever and it’s useless to discuss political strategy. It’s weird that you keep demanding I answer a question … like I care?? About answering you?

                  • Liz@midwest.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    7 months ago

                    It’s not about me, it’s about giving the audience more information to work with when attempting to understand your arguments.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      43
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      Both choices are terrible, I agree, but there is one that is a clear better over the other.

      One wants you to boil alive slowly and the other wants to dismember you with a chain saw.

      We need to vote for the boiler and hope we can convince him not to turn up the heat again.

      But also, if we’re in bright red or blue states voting has no impact on the end result. It’s just a way to wash our hands of the guilt of supporting the other guy.

      As a trans woman from a European country which political climate is heavily influenced by yours, I can quite confidently say that my rights are in your hands.

      That’s crazy, because I assumed you could also vote and that voting was the only real solution.

      Are American votes now the only votes that matter?

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        15
        ·
        8 months ago

        and that voting was the only real solution.

        lmao

        Just because you believe that voting cannot be part of any solution doesn’t mean the rest of us just believe the exact opposite. What are you, in grade school?

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          15
          ·
          8 months ago

          you believe that voting cannot be part of any solution

          It can only be a solution in a state with a functional democracy. Texas does not have that.

          • YeetPics@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            8 months ago

            All I hear is complaints. Why not aim some of your misgivings towards a solution instead of screeching constantly?

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              8 months ago

              All I hear is complaints

              All I hear is “vote harder” and “leftists did this”, from a state where Biden is down 20 points.

              Why not aim some of your misgivings towards a solution

              Ask me that on the HISD picket line.

      • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        8 months ago

        One wants you to boil alive slowly and the other wants to dismember you with a chain saw.

        No.

        One is consisting of unimaginative and incompetent people, and people that want to do things but cannot due to the another group.

        The other group is consisting of outright vile people that get off of other people’s suffering, religious fanatics that need some “noble lies” about things like trans people otherwise “they’ll throw away eternal happiness of the afterlife for the temporary happiness of this life”, and “good willing conservatives” that are fooled by the meaning of the word and think “even if all this turns out to be real hatred, the next government can just unlegislate the law”.

        We had 8 years of the former in Hungary. The latter convinced enough “good willing conservatives” to vote for them. We no longer can “unvote” them, for another government to “unlegislate” horrible laws, and no government will unsteal money stolen by Fidesz oligarchs, unexpel kids from high school because Fidesz lowered the education age, and undo the countless other harm caused by them.

        I don’t think a “world wide worker’s revolution” is coming. If it’s coming, it’ll be in current China style, and I got enough of mediocre dictators wanting to form society to their liking. If it will be somehow good, it still can’t undo the harms of the current system. And if the rise of Nazism didn’t lead to the second coming of Rosa Luxemburg, I doubt the current rise of fascism will lead to anything like that, and leftist movements can be easily crushed by a police state in their cradles. Hell, all they need is widespread alcoholism and overwork, like in Hungary where they weaponize doomerism.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          7 months ago

          One is consisting of unimaginative and incompetent people

          Sadly, the Pete Buttigiegs and Krysten Sinemas of the world are fiercely competent in their pursuit of climbing up the political ladder and cashing out at the public’s expense.

          We had 8 years of the former in Hungary. The latter convinced enough “good willing conservatives” to vote for them. We no longer can “unvote” them

          The former paved the way for the latter. Perestroika opened the gates to the neoliberal barbarians, and when they were done looting the country it was ripe for a fascist revival. Every “we have to vote for the lesser of two evils” concession accumulated a bit more evil. And what you’re left with is a mafia in place of a government precisely because compromise after compromise whittled away everything the country had going for it.

          I don’t think a “world wide worker’s revolution” is coming.

          I don’t think Biden wins this next election. Not for all the screaming and left-shaming and "but Trump is worse"ing on the internet. Biden’s 2020 coalition is hemorrhaging conservatives as fast as its hemorrhaging college leftists. He can’t win Arizona, Nevada, or Georgia a second time now that he’s pissed away domestic good will on hundreds of billions in foreign military aid.

          And if the rise of Nazism didn’t lead to the second coming of Rosa Luxemburg

          Rosa Luxemburg was killed in 1919, by the German State Police, as they sought to quell student protests. She was arrested by the Freikorps and tortured before their execution. This was the year before the formation of the NSDAP. The leaders of the Shanghai Commune of 1927 suffered a similar fate under Chiang Kai-shek eight years later. It was Luxemburg’s death, and the exile of Zhou Enlai, that heralded the ascension of the then-modern fascist movement.

          This occurred under moderate governments. One might even call them Bidenesque. They cleared a path for the fascism that swept through China and Germany over the next decades under ostensibly liberal democratic rule.

          What we’re seeing in Palestine and Ukraine and Argentina and India - and reflected in Columbia and UCLA and UT@A, via a militant police backed by far-right local militias - is a tide of fascism that won’t be stopped by a bunch of liberal enablers. Hundreds of Rosas are dying to Israel bombs. Hundreds more are being rounded up and brutalized by American police. They’ll keep appearing, because this amount of pain and fear is intolerable, and has to be resisted at all costs.

          And if you think that resistance to fascism amounts to

          mediocre dictators wanting to form society to their liking

          then I gotta question what you’re going to do now that fascism is on your doorstep.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            7 months ago

            Rosa Luxemburg was killed in 1919, by the German State Police, as they sought to quell student protests.

            Funny way of saying “Quelling an armed uprising that Rosa Luxemburg herself had voted against”, but honesty isn’t your strong suit, I know.