I think that’s been a proven case for European parliamentary democracies giving way to right wing and fascist parties. But that’s more the reverse: the liberal and center-left move center and then lose.
But US politics doesn’t have much leftist policy to shed, or many leftist politicians to exoricate, so it is more that even when Democrats win, policy stays right of center. Which is where the frustrated remark “both parties are the same” comes from, which everyone also shits on.
Since you know, the centre right continually stretches further right like a rubber band.
Dems can’t move as far left as you want them to when there’s a very real chance of losing. Want it to move left? Give Dems overwhelming and consistent wins and they can listen to the more left part of their party and move left.
If this were a parliamentary system, sure. But our constitutional framework does not produce overwhelming, consistent victory. Like, ever, in its history.
May I remind you after the Bush administration, Obama won both the primaries and the overall election by campaigning from the left, not the center. And he won by a very wide margin.
Hmmmmm how ever could you influence who would win an election? Hmmmmmmm, Let’s see. Oh yeah, by voting.
May I remind you that Obama was not running against an incumbent? (Not to mention that he mostly ran on hope. And after the war mongering Bush it really didn’t take much.) When running against an incumbent, you have to go to the centre. That was how Clinton and Biden won. And we’re back to how do you move things left? Simple: By voting. By giving consistent and overwhelming victories.
Biden isn’t running against an incumbent, he is the incumbent. You want him to run from the center against an incumbent, OK. But then what? Run from the center again? That doesn’t make sense.
Again, “consistent, overwhelming” victory is a fantasy. Control of the executive and legislative branch exchanges hands every few terms. That’s just how this rule-set and this electorate play out.
JFC Now you’re just playing dumb. Biden ran against the incumbent, do I have to specify I’m talking 2020? When Biden faced off against the incumbent in 2020 he had to run centre. JFC. And guess fucking what, that carries on. Especially when it’s a rematch of the same guys, with the same policies, the same MO. Why do I bother when you play dumb. (Not that he’s even announced what he’s running on yet for 2024, but we can take a good guess).
Yeah you’re back to excusing yourself for not voting. Jeez you know how you could change that changing hands stuff? By voting. Seriously why am I bothering when all you do is make excuses for not voting. If you want to continue you’re gong to have to do better.
Congressionally and locally: not nearly as much. There’s a pretty solid track record especially since the Citizens United and SpeechNow decisions of the Democratic Party either mobilizing against progressives and for conservatives in primaries where there isn’t even a GOP threat.
They even took down Katie Porter because she didn’t kiss the ring of Dianne Feinstein.
But yeah, the acute threat the GOP poses gives them harm reduction status.
The DNC funded Schiff hard and even funded the GOP candidate for attack ads against her. I mean you’re objectively correct: she lost. But she was fighting two parties by the time the primary happened.
She announced her intent to run too early back when effort was still being made to “Weekend At Bernies” Feinstein, which waa her undoing.
SURELY the DNC will listen if they don’t vote, don’t run, and don’t donate, but post a genocide Joe meme from their phone also made available by genocide while wearing clothes manufactured by a genocidal state on land acquired from an ethnic cleansing. That’s the morally upstanding thing to do.
Well they didn’t listen when we did vote so fuck em. And no, participating in Capitalism is not an endorsement of capitalism. Never was, never will be, because participation is enforced.
I helped run the phone lines for Biden in 2020. And what did I get? I got shit on. I got to watch my country participate in a fucking genocide. You don’t get to support that and then claim it’s some radical minority that’s the problem. The majority of non republicans want him to at least condition aid if not stop it all together at this point. All he has to do is follow the already written laws he’s been ignoring.
Democrats spend more time attacking the left than they EVER have Republicans, because their platforms are 95% the same. You don’t get to insult half your base, tell them their priorities are bullshit baby dreams, move further right from your already mid right position, then blame those people for your loss.
By telling leftists to eat shit, you’re saying you don’t need leftists to win. If leftists are the single cause behind every dem loss then its probably time to change your platform to cater to leftists (or just admit that you’re fascists that’ll take the red fascism instead of the blue fascism before you shift left even a little bit.)
I think the important takeaway here is that you may hammer R’s all you want, but if you want to rely on the left electorate, you have to serve the left electorate.
So the fight really is between “let’s at least hold blatant fascism” and “let’s tech Dems to listen a bit so that on their next election they would actually cater to the left instead of being lesser evil”.
Because right now Dems are just that - lesser evil that doesn’t care to align with the leftists.
I have no balls in this game, I’m not even a US citizen, but I see the point they’re trying to make.
They’ve been backing a genocide and demonizing the university protests. That’s very real, physical things that are on the right the Democrats are doing.
And then they ask “wHy dO tHe dEms mOvE tO tHe CenTrE wHeN tHeY lOsE i dOn’T uNdErsTanD”.
I think that’s been a proven case for European parliamentary democracies giving way to right wing and fascist parties. But that’s more the reverse: the liberal and center-left move center and then lose.
But US politics doesn’t have much leftist policy to shed, or many leftist politicians to exoricate, so it is more that even when Democrats win, policy stays right of center. Which is where the frustrated remark “both parties are the same” comes from, which everyone also shits on.
Since you know, the centre right continually stretches further right like a rubber band.
Dems can’t move as far left as you want them to when there’s a very real chance of losing. Want it to move left? Give Dems overwhelming and consistent wins and they can listen to the more left part of their party and move left.
If this were a parliamentary system, sure. But our constitutional framework does not produce overwhelming, consistent victory. Like, ever, in its history.
May I remind you after the Bush administration, Obama won both the primaries and the overall election by campaigning from the left, not the center. And he won by a very wide margin.
Hmmmmm how ever could you influence who would win an election? Hmmmmmmm, Let’s see. Oh yeah, by voting.
May I remind you that Obama was not running against an incumbent? (Not to mention that he mostly ran on hope. And after the war mongering Bush it really didn’t take much.) When running against an incumbent, you have to go to the centre. That was how Clinton and Biden won. And we’re back to how do you move things left? Simple: By voting. By giving consistent and overwhelming victories.
Biden isn’t running against an incumbent, he is the incumbent. You want him to run from the center against an incumbent, OK. But then what? Run from the center again? That doesn’t make sense.
Again, “consistent, overwhelming” victory is a fantasy. Control of the executive and legislative branch exchanges hands every few terms. That’s just how this rule-set and this electorate play out.
JFC Now you’re just playing dumb. Biden ran against the incumbent, do I have to specify I’m talking 2020? When Biden faced off against the incumbent in 2020 he had to run centre. JFC. And guess fucking what, that carries on. Especially when it’s a rematch of the same guys, with the same policies, the same MO. Why do I bother when you play dumb. (Not that he’s even announced what he’s running on yet for 2024, but we can take a good guess).
Yeah you’re back to excusing yourself for not voting. Jeez you know how you could change that changing hands stuff? By voting. Seriously why am I bothering when all you do is make excuses for not voting. If you want to continue you’re gong to have to do better.
Presidentially: yeah.
Congressionally and locally: not nearly as much. There’s a pretty solid track record especially since the Citizens United and SpeechNow decisions of the Democratic Party either mobilizing against progressives and for conservatives in primaries where there isn’t even a GOP threat.
They even took down Katie Porter because she didn’t kiss the ring of Dianne Feinstein.
But yeah, the acute threat the GOP poses gives them harm reduction status.
President and Congress. Probably locally too but federally is what I’m focusing on.
And this isn’t strictly harm reduction. Like I said, want it to move left? That will happen with overwhelming and consistent wins.
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The DNC funded Schiff hard and even funded the GOP candidate for attack ads against her. I mean you’re objectively correct: she lost. But she was fighting two parties by the time the primary happened.
She announced her intent to run too early back when effort was still being made to “Weekend At Bernies” Feinstein, which waa her undoing.
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Well yes, that is one thing that helps lead to that other thing.
At least, not when there’s a very real chance of losing to the right.
It’d be different if the Republican Party was out there hawking Marx instead of Mises.
SURELY the DNC will listen if they don’t vote, don’t run, and don’t donate, but post a genocide Joe meme from their phone also made available by genocide while wearing clothes manufactured by a genocidal state on land acquired from an ethnic cleansing. That’s the morally upstanding thing to do.
Well they didn’t listen when we did vote so fuck em. And no, participating in Capitalism is not an endorsement of capitalism. Never was, never will be, because participation is enforced.
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I helped run the phone lines for Biden in 2020. And what did I get? I got shit on. I got to watch my country participate in a fucking genocide. You don’t get to support that and then claim it’s some radical minority that’s the problem. The majority of non republicans want him to at least condition aid if not stop it all together at this point. All he has to do is follow the already written laws he’s been ignoring.
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Intentional misinterpretation.
Democrats spend more time attacking the left than they EVER have Republicans, because their platforms are 95% the same. You don’t get to insult half your base, tell them their priorities are bullshit baby dreams, move further right from your already mid right position, then blame those people for your loss.
By telling leftists to eat shit, you’re saying you don’t need leftists to win. If leftists are the single cause behind every dem loss then its probably time to change your platform to cater to leftists (or just admit that you’re fascists that’ll take the red fascism instead of the blue fascism before you shift left even a little bit.)
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I think the important takeaway here is that you may hammer R’s all you want, but if you want to rely on the left electorate, you have to serve the left electorate.
So the fight really is between “let’s at least hold blatant fascism” and “let’s tech Dems to listen a bit so that on their next election they would actually cater to the left instead of being lesser evil”.
Because right now Dems are just that - lesser evil that doesn’t care to align with the leftists.
I have no balls in this game, I’m not even a US citizen, but I see the point they’re trying to make.
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They’ve been backing a genocide and demonizing the university protests. That’s very real, physical things that are on the right the Democrats are doing.
Keep cheerleading for fascism, buddy. :)
Your entire argument and political stance IS ALREADY FASCIST, buddy. :)