CHILLICOTHE, Ohio — A recent incident at Adena Health System has intensified scrutiny of its cardiology department. A 65-year-old woman died during what should have been a routine heart catheterization, leading to pressing questions about the practices and credentials of the physicians involved. What happened after her time of death is concerning.
“Separate allegations made by colleagues indicate that he and another physician, Dr. Matos Cruz, were observed watching YouTube videos on medical procedures they were unfamiliar with. One patient reportedly died after such a procedure, while another had to undergo three additional procedures at Ohio State University, according to families connected to the procedures.”
Fucking youtube doctors. Wow.
I just want to point out of all the things here this is the least alarming, although context is key. Trust me when I say your medical professionals are googling and YouTubing all kinds of shit. I’ve watched doctors google procedures before attempting them, especially if it’s a rare procedure. YouTube actually has hundreds of hours of manufacturer hosted content designed specifically for this. Now again context is key. They say someone died after they attempted the thing they were searching. That’s def a problem especially if it were some procedure they should be fully competent to perform.
If your mechanic is googling how to change some obscure part on a car he rarely works on, mmmm that’s reasonable. If your mechanic is googling ‘how to turn on windshield wiper Toyota Camry’ we got problems.
I remember sitting at the nurses station one day and someone asked the ER doc if she was familiar with this extremely rare genetic disorder. She goes ‘how dare you ask me that question I am a MEDICAL DOCTOR.’ There was a bit of a pause and she goes ‘ haha just kidding I have no idea but I’m gonna look it up’ .
This. Knowledgeable professionals “google” things all the time.
If you need an unusual procedure, would you prefer your surgeon googled it to find a video of some prof explaining it, or a surgeon that just tries to remember.
As a programmer, I have made a career from being one step ahead, thanks to Google. I don’t bother with formal training courses anymore, when a quick skim of Google gives me what I need much quicker. Text books? I have not bought one in decades.
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Or when your employer is sued by stack exchange after a code audit because their TOS says they own the copyright on all user submitted code and their whole business model is get everyone used to using it and go after businesses for copyright violation because programmers copy paste code blurbs.
The number of code snippets that can be copied and pasted and fit your use-case exactly is almost 0. The number of those code snippets that are well written and would survive code review is even smaller. Stack overflow is good for getting an idea of what libraries exist. Good programmers use it for inspiration and move on to official docs from there (assuming they exist).
There’s usually other non-stack exchange resources that pop up in searches so I’ll just scroll on to those.
And that copy pasting can include changing variable names to match yours while still violating copyright. And I agree that good programmers don’t even do that, but there’s a lot of not so good programmers out there.
That doesn’t excuse a copyright violation.
I have made a career from being one step ahead, thanks to Google.
I’m speechless. Just surprised someone would actually say that.
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or a surgeon that just tries to remember.
Especially since medical science has almost certainly advanced since their days in medical school, and it’s absolutely impossible to keep up with all the new discoveries, medications and procedures.
I dated a doctor and he told me they’re googling stuff all the time. It’s a bit unreasonable to expect a doctor to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every single malady known to the human race.
Yeah, it’s worse when they aren’t doing research. My ex was trying to get a referral to a clinic specializing in a condition she was sure she had so she could get an official diagnosis. Her family doctor kept just saying she didn’t have it until one day I went with her and asked him what reasoning he was using to rule it out and he admitted that he wasn’t very familiar with it and would read up about it. Her next appointment was a short one because he immediately knew she should be referred after he actually did read about it.
And he’s one of the better doctors she’s had.
Sounds like that doctor has a bit of an ego too so good for you on challenging him. Ego and profits have no place in healthcare.
There’s ego in this but maybe also some sexism, I say this because I have read it mentioned a lot that women have a hard time getting proper diagnosis.
Women and minorities both often aren’t taken seriously by patriarchal medical providers. Fortunately, this is being addressed more and more in their education, but it’ll take time.
In the US, training for nurse practitioners has incorporated bias awareness and patient-centered care concepts for much longer, so you might bear that in mind when seeking care. Also, for women specifically: you can go to a nurse midwife for general women’s health services, not just pregnancy care!
He was a new doctor and I think he was leaning into the whole “it’s never lupus” mindset too strongly rather than it being an ego thing.
I feel for you. We went through two negative tests for lupus before it ended up…being lupus.
But House…
/s
They also have access to more reputable sources like UpToDate and PubMed when they need to look stuff up.
Absolutely true but when it comes to certain procedures that use specific pieces of equipment you often have to use manufacturers content as guidance. There’s also a lot lot of content online for different techniques and approaches to care that might not be accessible otherwise.
I’m not a doctor but jump on uptodate any chance I can. But I frequently use trusted resources on sites like YouTube for broader topics for refreshers or if it’s a particular skill I’m working on and the source is trusted.
Again there’s a huge jump from doing a bit of refreshing and say, popping a YouTube video on for a serious procedure and then going yolo without the proper training to actually do it.
I have a rare nerve disorder and I’m always impressed when doctors know what it is. I can tell when they know too, because their reaction is usually, “Oh! Oh.” And then the pity starts and I have to tell them to snap out of it.
I don’t think we need to pivot to mechanics vs. doctors.
We can stay on subject without resorting to analogies that are never a 1:1 representation of the situation at hand.
What do you mean? It’s perhaps the most apt analogy I can think of. In the strictest literal sense, physiological care is a flesh mechanic servicing your flesh parts. The main difference here is a matter of scope, but that is the point of analogies; to reframe a thought in a smaller and comprehensible way.
Only way we could stay 1:1 is if the discussion is solely populated with qualified medical professionals and not a mix of differently educated laypeople.
Laypeople is the time-honored term unless you’re specifically referring to men. Although in certain religious contexts, “the laity” is preferred.
Laypeople is a very new term. Layman is the time honored term, because people think -man means male. Werelay and wyflay would be gendered terms specifically referring to men or women, layman is ungendered.
In recent times we’ve changed the meaning of the suffix -man to be synonymous with the prefix were-.
It’s a shame, because it implies we were something we weren’t (re: sexism in that part of language) - but I am not defending the stance of not changing it. Just be aware: it’s new.
In the UCC it’s been around since the 1960s. So have I, and I’m old.
Yes, new.
I absolutely agree, thank you for the spot check. Old dog got stuck in muscle memory before coffee. Editing.
The “dr” who performed the original surgery was already facing alligations that his creditionals were not up to par. How the fuck was they allowing him into surgery? I hope this hospital gets sued into bankruptcy and they throw that kid in prison for malpractice and murder.
Every paragraph in this article is shocking. This is horrible.
Those two aren’t even young guys. How long have they been practicing medicine? This is beyond disturbing.
Everyone knows that real medical training comes from liveleak! Fucking amateurs.
Great reddit joke!
You’re so funny!
Go home, you’re drunk.
This is terrible, but from the four images shown in this thumbnail I have a pretty good guess of whose idea it was.
I betz you’re correct
Bahar you aren’t kidding. Bro just said medical school is for dorks and went on youtube
Mike Pence moonlighting as the CEO?
Mother is just sleeping
No joke. His phenotype is used car salesman or call center shift lead, not doctor, and DEFINITELY not heart surgeon.
I looked up the procedure they were doing, a TVAR, and most institutions require a cardiac or cardiothoracic surgeon to perform the procedure or at least be involved with it. The accused here has a fellowship in interventional cardiology which covers more basic catheter-based procedures like stents; but valve replacement, even trans-catheter ones, are almost always handled by proper CT surgeons.
The fact that they staged the patient being on life support to hide obvious medical malpractice is beyond words. The psychological trauma to the family is horrible. How could you even justify putting that type of guilt on others to hide your own misdeeds is beyond me. There has better be some revoking of medical licenses happening after this case.
The article says one nurse believed that the patient didn’t even need the surgery. I think criminal charges might be warranted.
Further concerns have arisen regarding Dr. Rehman. Separate allegations made by colleagues indicate that he and another physician, Dr. Matos Cruz, were observed watching YouTube videos on medical procedures they were unfamiliar with. One patient reportedly died after such a procedure, while another had to undergo three additional procedures at Ohio State University, according to families connected to the procedures.
Jesus… just own up if you don’t feel comfortable doing a procedure
They might have been worried about their image. I’ve heard that narcissistic and psychopathic personalities are common among surgeons.
Dude looks like a character from a zany fish-out-of-water comedy.
Bad casting. This is clearly a Weekend at Bernie’s ripoff.
Somewhat related, during my time working in an ER, we had a dedicated family viewing room where grieving families could gather after a loved one’s passing. On one occasion, a young man arrived as a suspected overdose. One of the nurses, seeing his youth, went above and beyond to make him appear more dignified before the family’s arrival, even propping up the head of his bed. When I came in to bag the body for transport after they had all left, lowering the head of the bed caused his legs to flop into the air. You can imagine how challenging it was to fit a body into a body bag when it’s shaped like an L.
At my previous job I did hospital triage. Once a guy walked up to me and said “My wife isn’t doing well, I think she’s dead”. He told me she had been sick for several days and when she started doing really badly he had to get his neighbor to help carry her to the car. He said he didn’t want to bother the fire department.
He had driven from his home on the eastern fucking shore of Maryland to DC. 100+ miles. Told me he was going to be staying at his house in Maryland because he didn’t like his house in DC. She came out of the passenger seat and stayed in a seated position and we put her in an unstaffed room.
I’ve read this 3 times and still have no idea what actually happened
Rigor mortise.
A postmortem change resulting in the stiffening of the body muscles.
Basically when you have been dead for a little while, you stay in the position you are in. So a seated dead body went stiff on the drive to the hospital and stayed in that position even when taken out of the car.
It was just poorly written.
He wanted her declared dead in DC for tax reasons?
I get heart catheterizations at my yearly check ups for my heart transplant. Reading this made me feel sick. I’m so glad I go to a very well renown hospital for it.
My 27 year old fiance just had to have a heart ablation and reading this nearly brought me to tears thinking about what could have happened.
Yes, I’m guessing that part of it is that Chillicothe is in the middle of nowhere (I went to a trade school there).
Hi, Doctor Nick!
Finally
I was told here on Lemmy recently that “The Todd” from Scrubs is basically true about surgeons, so this shouldn’t have surprised me.
i haven’t seen that show. what’s up with “The Todd”?
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“
Hippocraticoath”“Hypocritic oath”
Jarrod could be completely innocent in this whole ordeal, but I can’t be the only one thinking…
Weekend at Bernice’s?
Weekend at Adena’s.
