The destruction of Palestine is breaking the world | Moustafa Bayoumi
www.theguardian.com
The rules of the institutions that define our lives bend like reeds when it comes to Israel – so much that the whole global order is on the verge of collapse

Israel’s war in Gaza is chipping away at so much of what we – in the United States but also internationally – had agreed upon as acceptable, from the rules governing our freedom of speech to the very laws of armed conflict. It seems no exaggeration to say that the foundation of the international order of the last 77 years is threatened by this change in the obligations governing our legal and political responsibilities to each other.

  • madlian@lemmy.cafeEnglish
    0·
    12 days ago

    Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine. Joining those two groups is ridiculous and rude to Jewish people.

    The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish.

    That said, after it became a British Mandate (1917), Israel got a ton of international support. And obviously after WWII, they got whatever they wanted…. Which, was choosing violence.

    A lot of the reason the Arabs got little support was because they were fragmented, with no leadership. Each of their revolts were seen as a threat and not a legitimate push back against colonization. And, after the Ottoman Empire fell, England and France “stole” that land, so revolts were more or less terrorism (in their eyes, of course).

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
      0·
      12 days ago

      The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution.

      This is completely ignoring the boycott and parallel society angle. What Zionists did in pre-mandate Palestine was also forced expulsion of Palestinians; the forcing part was simply delegated to the state. Had they simply wanted to settle in Palestine nobody would’ve minded, but that was fundamentally not what the Zionist project was.

      According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, Zionism was inherently expansionist and always had the goal of turning the entirety of Palestine into a Jewish state. In addition, Morris describes the Zionists as intent on politically and physically dispossessing the Arabs.

      The World Zionist Organization established the Jewish National Fund (JNF) in 1901, with the stated goal “to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people.” The notion of land “redemption” entailed that the land could not be sold and could not be leased to a non-Jew nor should the land be worked by Arabs.[145] The land purchased was primarily from absentee landlords, and upon purchase of the land, the tenant farmers who traditionally had rights of usufruct were often expelled.

      -Wikipedia

      Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine.

      Nazism had a lot to do with the German people expanding their homeland to Eastern Europe and Russia and murdering the inhabitants. Starting to see the similarities now? Nazism and Zionism are sister ideologies, both fruits from the same rotten tree that is European settler colonialism.

      • madlian@lemmy.cafeEnglish
        0·
        12 days ago

        Anyone could argue that “my people deserve this” is a similar ideology. That’s just false equivalence. You are cherry picking, and ignoring a whole lot of history and intention.

        Has Israel moved towards a similar ideology? Yes. But to claim in started out with that intent is just angry jaw flapping.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
          0·
          11 days ago

          Anyone could argue that “my people deserve this” is a similar ideology.

          “My people deserve this land at the expense of its current inhabitants” is fascism, or at least the underpinning thereof, so you’re not wrong there. Nazism, Zionism, Manifest Destiny, it is literally the same thing manifesting in different ways. Look up “blood and soil” and “Lebensraum”. Ben Gurion is literally on record saying “we must remove the Arabs and take their place”. The Nakba started before the founding of Israel. If you have an argument for how the Nakba was anything but fascism, let’s hear it, but so far you’re not saying anything of substance.

          But to claim in started out with that intent is just angry jaw flapping.

          Okay let’s try this. Try this online quiz and see if you can get more than 15/21.

          • madlian@lemmy.cafeEnglish
            0·
            11 days ago

            It’s really easy to cherry pick similar statements from people and compare them and make a whole website. Anyone could do the exact opposite.

            If you’re going to quote people, you need to use dates because as I have said before dates matter.

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
              0·
              11 days ago

              Ben Gurion’s is 1937.

              It’s really easy to cherry pick similar statements from people and compare them and make a whole website.

              My dude non-fascists don’t say “when we settle [region], [group] will have no choice but to scurry like drugged cockroaches” (dated 1983 btw). Also the site has dates and sources for the quotes; most Zionist quotes are recent but a few are from the 20th century with two from before WWI. They even have one by Herzl himself. Zionism was and continues to use and be predicated on downright Nazi antisemitic propaganda about how Jews can never live with non-Jews and how diaspora Jews are sickly and weak and all that shit. That’s why they shit on Holocaust victims, for instance.

              • madlian@lemmy.cafeEnglish
                0·
                11 days ago

                1937 is how many years after 1897? Have I not been saying this entire time that the original idea was lost? Yes… pretty sure I did… yup checked I did.

                My dude? Okay have a good day if you’re going to talk like that.

                • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
                  0·
                  11 days ago

                  Well obviously if you define your “original idea” early enough there’ll be nothing to criticize because they’ll have done nothing yet. But fine. Is plain antisemitic propaganda in 1904 early enough for you? What about “a land without a people for a people without a land” in 1898?

                  “A Jew brought up among Germans may assume German custom, German words. He may be wholly imbued with that German fluid but the nucleus of his spiritual structure will always remain Jewish, because his blood, his body, his physical-racial type are Jewish. … It is impossible for a man to become assimilated with people whose blood is different from his own. In order to become assimilated, he must change his body, he must become one of them, in blood. … There can be no assimilation as long as there is no mixed marriage. … An increase in the number of mixed marriages is the only sure and infallible means for the destruction of nationality as such. … A preservation of national integrity is impossible except by a preservation of racial purity, and for that purpose we are in need of a territory of our own where our people will constitute the overwhelming majority.”

                  -Ze’ev Jabotinsky (né Vladimir Yevgenyevich Zhabotinsky), Revisionist Zionist leader who co-founded the Jewish Legion of the British Army in World War I, on June 06, 1904

                  ‘National Judaism’ will make the ancient soil fertile. It seems miraculous. Everything natural is miraculous. Once the nation which we Zionists are arousing is fully awakened, things will happen swiftly and dynamically. Then the nation will behold its ancient land beautifully situated on the Mediterranean, with regions of cold, moderate and warm climate – a land suited for any kind of cultivation, with long-dormant natural resources.”

                  -Literally Theodor Herzl, 1896.