I’m a pretty strong free speech advocate but if you’re going to engage in protest speech you should take the time to learn about well-established time/place/manner restrictions and not break other obvious laws.
Sidewalks are generally established free speech forums (there are others as well) and you should be able to say pretty much anything there. But you can’t stand on the sidewalk and smash car windows and assault people and complain about your speech being silenced when you’re arrested. I know that’s not at all what happened here, just an illustration.
That said, even if you’re doing everything correctly sometimes police will try to stop your speech if they don’t like it. Always record such police interactions.
Edit I’m not advocating blind obedience. Civil disobedience is necessary and good, but don’t be surprised when you get arrested. And if you think the laws they “broke” need to change, pressure your representatives to change it. But spoiler alert, both parties like being protected from protest inside the statehouses.
You know that black chick who refused to go to the back of the bus a few gens ago? Believe it or not, ILLEGAL!
Was she a criminal who should have “learned” to protest at the well-established time/place/manner? If no, check your conformism. Needing “approval” to protest is anti-democratic.
If you’re still not getting it — On a scale of peaceful to genocide, how “criminal” is sitting inside a building without approval?
I also believe in civil disobedience but everyone gets all surprised picachu face when people get arrested for breaking the law. Go ahead and do it, just don’t be surprised.
I find there’s often an agreement bias. If hundreds of Trump supporters had sat in the same time/place/manner on Jan 6 rather than what happened, would you have agreed with their arrest?
Great response and I agree with you on both. People who showed up peacefully and broke no laws didn’t get arrested on Jan 6. But neither party is going to change the law to allow protests in our statehouses.
If they had sat around the building chanting, without beating police or any violence? Then it would’ve been a slightly larger nothing burger. Despite being a significantly dumber, unjustifiable, cause, the only legitimate concern is security for the people who have to work there and damage to property. Luckily anti-genocide protestors are 1000x less violent than insurrectionist fascists, so it’s not even a remotely valid comparison.
Getting arrested for doing nothing but decrying oppression and existing in the presence of Congress is kinda the point. Makes a bigger scene, catches media attention, gets shared, support grows.
Hell, I think peta is a clever marketing tactic to shift the Overton window. “I’m all for treating animals better, but those guys are assholes!” Same for the climate protestors who fuck up artwork. “we should absolutely fix the climate, but don’t fuck with van Gogh!” It gets people to support the ideas of the cause but unifies against the extreme actions taken, while those same extreme actions facilitate further sharing.
FWIW, they didn’t fuck up artwork - certainly not van gogh’s or whatever. The art is covered in glass cases to protect it, so the glass just had to be replaced (which, well, is relatively cheap compared to the paintings. they probably have a fund to cover that cost as the cost of doing business.)
Did they break the law?
I’m a pretty strong free speech advocate but if you’re going to engage in protest speech you should take the time to learn about well-established time/place/manner restrictions and not break other obvious laws.
Sidewalks are generally established free speech forums (there are others as well) and you should be able to say pretty much anything there. But you can’t stand on the sidewalk and smash car windows and assault people and complain about your speech being silenced when you’re arrested. I know that’s not at all what happened here, just an illustration.
That said, even if you’re doing everything correctly sometimes police will try to stop your speech if they don’t like it. Always record such police interactions.
Edit I’m not advocating blind obedience. Civil disobedience is necessary and good, but don’t be surprised when you get arrested. And if you think the laws they “broke” need to change, pressure your representatives to change it. But spoiler alert, both parties like being protected from protest inside the statehouses.
You know that black chick who refused to go to the back of the bus a few gens ago? Believe it or not, ILLEGAL!
Was she a criminal who should have “learned” to protest at the well-established time/place/manner? If no, check your conformism. Needing “approval” to protest is anti-democratic.
If you’re still not getting it — On a scale of peaceful to genocide, how “criminal” is sitting inside a building without approval?
I also believe in civil disobedience but everyone gets all surprised picachu face when people get arrested for breaking the law. Go ahead and do it, just don’t be surprised.
I find there’s often an agreement bias. If hundreds of Trump supporters had sat in the same time/place/manner on Jan 6 rather than what happened, would you have agreed with their arrest?
Fuck no. And they didn’t.
Great response and I agree with you on both. People who showed up peacefully and broke no laws didn’t get arrested on Jan 6. But neither party is going to change the law to allow protests in our statehouses.
If they had sat around the building chanting, without beating police or any violence? Then it would’ve been a slightly larger nothing burger. Despite being a significantly dumber, unjustifiable, cause, the only legitimate concern is security for the people who have to work there and damage to property. Luckily anti-genocide protestors are 1000x less violent than insurrectionist fascists, so it’s not even a remotely valid comparison.
Getting arrested for doing nothing but decrying oppression and existing in the presence of Congress is kinda the point. Makes a bigger scene, catches media attention, gets shared, support grows.
Hell, I think peta is a clever marketing tactic to shift the Overton window. “I’m all for treating animals better, but those guys are assholes!” Same for the climate protestors who fuck up artwork. “we should absolutely fix the climate, but don’t fuck with van Gogh!” It gets people to support the ideas of the cause but unifies against the extreme actions taken, while those same extreme actions facilitate further sharing.
FWIW, they didn’t fuck up artwork - certainly not van gogh’s or whatever. The art is covered in glass cases to protect it, so the glass just had to be replaced (which, well, is relatively cheap compared to the paintings. they probably have a fund to cover that cost as the cost of doing business.)
Oh, I absolutely know that. But I think the principle of my argument stands.
it makes it even better, because the paintings are just fine.