I’m not really sure what point you’re making with it, though. We could start renting out oversize closets and spare rooms as separate housing, and people do, but that’s not generally regarded as a good solution to the housing crisis, and in fact is fairly illegal. We could start building more smaller houses, and as far as I can anecdotally see are, but that’s still building houses.
I’m getting at the point that we need to heavily incentivize people to move out of too much home, into appropriate sized housing for their current situation. Families need more rooms than couples. Just because you USED to have a family doesn’t mean you should be allowed to keep that same amount of space after they move out.
There is enough housing right now for everyone to have a reasonable amount, we just need to give people who have an unreasonably large amount a reason to get the fuck out.
Ah, but you’re not accounting for rental income, or equivalently the rent you won’t pay if you’re buying. People need to live somewhere, legally speaking, and legally speaking will keep paying more until it’s a profitable asset for the owners again.
Rents are tied directly to housing prices. If the price of housing goes down, so do rents. There can only be so much of a gap before renters just tell landlords to fuck off and buy their own place because it’s significantly cheaper.
The current rent prices are a reflection of the house prices being high, current house prices are not a reflection of rent prices being high. That distinction matters. House prices are high because they are profitable investments (even when sitting empty in many cases). Take away that profit, and house values with take a swan dive off a cliff.
You say it’s because there’s limited land, but the limit isn’t actually what you think it is. Vancouver has a lot of land, enough for millions of more people at density levels similar to cities like Paris or Tokyo. The problem is that it’s not available because people currently live there in detached homes that they refuse to sell because there’s no incentive to do so. The longer they hold it, the more money they make for retirement, and it doesn’t cost them anything more than they already paid to just stay.
Presumably they get some kind of income, right? They still eat. You mean a tax break just working individuals, then. That’s kind of the same as making the house tax 65+ only, except disabled people and similar will also get swept up.
I mean, some of their pensions are technically counted as income, but you’re right, I’m talking about income from jobs not pensions or other investments. It shouldn’t be age based at all, since there would be plenty of younger people who don’t work in the traditional sense either. Lots of people live off investments, family money, etc. and they shouldn’t get the break on taxes.
This is a nitpick since it has nothing to do with our topic, but I would also like to point out that you don’t buy something just because it appreciates, like you implied. Lots of assets do, and they do it in varying percentages that always end up matching the volatility (or actual existential risk if it’s that kind of investment) they experience on the way. The rational move is to buy whichever ones make sense given when you want to actually have your earnings available to spend (investment horizon).
What are you talking about, buying appreciating assets is literally what investment is. Given that you also need somewhere to live, a house is WAY too lucrative an investment for most people to avoid. If they can afford it, they buy it, that’s why home ownership is still at like 65% in Canada, a historically high percentage. I have purchased 3 houses with my wife over the years (consecutively, not at the same time) and each time we’ve bought as much as we were allowed to by the bank. We’ve made over $750k in the last 14 years in appreciation alone, in addition to the couple hundred grand in paid equity we’ve got, and that’s exactly why housing is unaffordable for everyone. That should never have happened.
The houses should have been cheaper because appreciation should have been either staved off by taxes in the first place, or taxed away.
The other thing is that wages shouldn’t have gone up as much either, because it wasn’t needed to pay for housing. Making everything else cheaper too.
Right now all the money that home owners make is coming from somewhere, and that somewhere is workers who are the only ones who actually produce value to be taxed.
I’m getting at the point that we need to heavily incentivize people to move out of too much home, into appropriate sized housing for their current situation. Families need more rooms than couples. Just because you USED to have a family doesn’t mean you should be allowed to keep that same amount of space after they move out.
There is enough housing right now for everyone to have a reasonable amount, we just need to give people who have an unreasonably large amount a reason to get the fuck out.
Rents are tied directly to housing prices. If the price of housing goes down, so do rents. There can only be so much of a gap before renters just tell landlords to fuck off and buy their own place because it’s significantly cheaper.
The current rent prices are a reflection of the house prices being high, current house prices are not a reflection of rent prices being high. That distinction matters. House prices are high because they are profitable investments (even when sitting empty in many cases). Take away that profit, and house values with take a swan dive off a cliff.
You say it’s because there’s limited land, but the limit isn’t actually what you think it is. Vancouver has a lot of land, enough for millions of more people at density levels similar to cities like Paris or Tokyo. The problem is that it’s not available because people currently live there in detached homes that they refuse to sell because there’s no incentive to do so. The longer they hold it, the more money they make for retirement, and it doesn’t cost them anything more than they already paid to just stay.
I mean, some of their pensions are technically counted as income, but you’re right, I’m talking about income from jobs not pensions or other investments. It shouldn’t be age based at all, since there would be plenty of younger people who don’t work in the traditional sense either. Lots of people live off investments, family money, etc. and they shouldn’t get the break on taxes.
What are you talking about, buying appreciating assets is literally what investment is. Given that you also need somewhere to live, a house is WAY too lucrative an investment for most people to avoid. If they can afford it, they buy it, that’s why home ownership is still at like 65% in Canada, a historically high percentage. I have purchased 3 houses with my wife over the years (consecutively, not at the same time) and each time we’ve bought as much as we were allowed to by the bank. We’ve made over $750k in the last 14 years in appreciation alone, in addition to the couple hundred grand in paid equity we’ve got, and that’s exactly why housing is unaffordable for everyone. That should never have happened.
The houses should have been cheaper because appreciation should have been either staved off by taxes in the first place, or taxed away.
The other thing is that wages shouldn’t have gone up as much either, because it wasn’t needed to pay for housing. Making everything else cheaper too.
Right now all the money that home owners make is coming from somewhere, and that somewhere is workers who are the only ones who actually produce value to be taxed.