I thought this video was rather interesting, because at 12:27, the presenter crunches the numbers to find out how many years it would take for a new computer purchase to be more environmentally friendly (in regards to total CO2 expended) compared to using a less efficient used model.
Depending on the specific use case, it could take as little as 3 years to breakeven in terms of CO2 if both systems were at max power draw forever, and as long as 30 if the systems are mostly at idle.
This should be a well know, but often misunderstood thing. Lots of reddit selfhosting threds urge people to buy a new mini-pc for its “low power draw” when usually its the same or 1-2watts less then a laptop from 2012. However performace to watt is much higher, so if you need massive preformance new is much better, if your system is idling most of the time anyway, basically no diffrence in buying old
You just can’t buy too old or the inverse happens and the performance per watt drops. I think you’re right that 2012 is about the cutoff. Maybe 2007 for certain items, like my 2007 iMac. But if you’re getting back to the Pentium 4 era you’ve gone too far and need to turn back around.
I love this community, I used to rant about efficiency all the the time on reddits self hosting community and everyone thought I was insane. If the damn thing is going to run 24/7 for 5+ years then put a little thought into its power usage!
I personally love old Dell optiplex micros on eBay. Cheap, plentiful laptop hardware in a cute little box which allows modest upgrades. My primary server in a full sized case is just a laptop CPU, Ryzen 5600g. It brings me joy that my network has four servers and still is under 75w idle for everything including networking gear.
It really depends on what you’re doing with it and on what old PCs you have available.
I have an N100 Mini-PC at home in my living room connected to my TV which is both a home server and a TV-Box using Kodi (I even have a remote for it).
Having modern image and video decoding in hardware is pretty useful when I’m using it as a TV Box (there is zero stutter with it), whilst the rest of the time the thing mostly sits doing some low CPU-intensive server tasks (mainly torrenting and SMB server stuff).
Also, it’s a small box that fits fine on my TV stand without standing out and runs silent pretty almost all of the time.
Further, I don’t have any low power consuming old PCs around - the best are some chunky old notebooks, the rest are old gaming PCs which eat more power idle than the mini PC does at full load - and even the notebooks aren’t that low power as all that.
Mind you, for many years I used an old Asus EEE PC (a very small notebook running Linux) as home file server (with external HDs) and had a separated dedicated hardware TV Media Server box playing files from it, but eventually that PC stopped working and I found out I could just use my Router as a file server.
Last but not least, judging for how long I kept using my TV Media Server boxes (which over almost 2 decades I had 2 different ones and which as dedicated hardware could not easilly be upgraded when new video compression standards came out) 10+ years is definitelly my time-frame for using that Mini-PC.
All this to say that you should consider using old hardware, especially if you have some around and it’s task appropriate (like I did before using an old Asus EEE PC as a home file server), but also take in account what you’re going to do it and consider if new hardware won’t be better over the timespan you will likely be using it and if the being able to get a more task appropriate form factor (like how having a little box-size Mini PC lets me have it in my living room on a TV stand next to my TV and my fiber router) is worth it.
In summary, before you get hardware you should ponder a bit about what you intend to do with it before you decide what to get, don’t be afraid of using stuff you already have and also don’t be afraid to get new stuff if it’s actually justified by hardnosed reasons rather than merely some variant of the “new stuff smell” psychological effect when buying new.
Yeah, this is why I reuse my old PC parts. Here’s my rough history:
- Built PC w/ old AM3 board for personal use
- Upgraded to AM4, used AM3 build for NAS (just bought drives)
- Upgraded CPU and mobo (wanted mini-ITX), and upgraded NAS to AM5 (did need some RAM)
My NAS power draw was cut in half from 2-3, and it’ll probably be cut again when I upgrade my PC again.
Old PC parts FTW!
I use a 2011 ThinkPad X120e as an FTP/Syncthing server. It was underpowered as a laptop from day one, but still works fine as a lightweight server. The best thing about ThinkPads is that TLP allows you to set min/max charging thresholds, so that you can keep an old battery in good shape for … well, I’ll let you know. This one’s 14 years old and still has a four-hour run time.
One thing I’d like to try is “Wake My Potato” for shutdown / automatic restart when a power outage occurs.
Links:
TLP - https://linrunner.de/tlp/index.html
Wake My Potato - https://github.com/pablogila/WakeMyPotato
Does that TLP work with proxmox? I was thinking about trying pm with an old Dell latitude I have, but I’m worried about the battery exploding.
Assuming it’s compatible with the hardware at all, it should. You would have to install it on the Proxmox host itself, but Proxmox is basically just Fancy-Debian-for-Virtual-Machine-Hosting and it has Debian packages so that shouldn’t be a problem. Login to the Proxmox itself and install it there.
