And sometimes not doing it is. Versailles? Frenchify it unless you’re talking abouta small town in Kentucky. Paris? Pronounce it the same whether it’s the one in France or in Texas. Milan? Honestly no clue and I live here (America, not italy)
Yeah, it’s weird. Sometimes people think it’s pretentious and sometimes people think you’re an idiot, whether you do it correctly or not. Like all rules with the English language, it’s a case-by-case issue. If anyone tells you a rule to remember it, it’s likely wrong more often than it’s correct.
The cultural backlash comes not from ‘pronouncing things correctly makes you sound educated’ but because people that do this are adopting an accent for one singular word, and that is often perceived as them attempting to imply some connection to that group/culture that they do not have.
Americans, white Americans especially, have essentially no cultural heritage to draw on. It’s why we latch onto things like a grandparent being from Ireland and thence go around calling ourselves Irish-American, or the confederate stans. People with a rich cultural history are generally viewed as extremely interesting, too, so when another american adopts characteristics from a culture they have no real connection with, it’s perceived as a deeply tacky attempt to gain social clout. Its akin to being presented with a lesser form of weaboo.
(to be fair, this does happen with the perception of educated people too. “Use real words” and all that, so you’re not really wrong just a bit wide of the mark on the particulars)
What do you mean, “white Americans have no cultural heritage”? Your culture runs the planet and has been a going concern for several centuries across hundreds of millions of people. We are in twenty twenty five, good sir. AD. Place got colonized in the sixteenth century. Half of Europe was in a completely different country back then, even discounting all the American history that goes before that.
And yeah, it’s weird that you latch on to foreign ancestry as a substitute. I’d joke about it, but I’m here getting all pissy about the US equivalent, so it’d be hypocritical, I suppose.
It’s our national Mythology, we’re a land of migrants and refugees. People have been coming to this land for 500 years, yeah that’s a long time compared to our perspective, but there are traditions and cultures in Europe that predate even knowing about the existence of other land in another hemisphere by an additional 1000 years.
And the culture you describe as dominant over the world while yes is predominantly white, is just unchecked capitalism and neoliberalism and a product of whoever controls the largest military and acts as the economic measuring stick to the rest of the world and that if any other nation were to unseat the US as the dominant economic and militant force, then their oligarch’s culture would dominate the planet.
Yeah, that’s your culture. I mean, time to own it.
For one thing, the rest of us out here don’t make that much of a distinction between different US subcultures. Trump is American culture, Oprah is American culture. They’re all pretty much the same thing.
For another, have some accountability. You guys did this, and yet you all insist it was not you you and you all feel so much more connected to wherever else. No. Stop it. Own it or change it.
Also, as a side point, man, do Americans love to exoticize how old everywhere else is. Yeah, sure, there are a bunch of medieval castles around and a few cultural remnants in traditions, but by and large most European folklore is rooted in some 18th/19th century crap, just like in the US. Europeans aren’t out there having Saturnalia parties.
Ahh yes I completely forgot that the monarchies of European nations only existed for the last 300 years and are in no way historically backed by a religion that’s existed for almost 2000 years which was has a hole book very significanly based on another religion dating back 5000 years. And I totally forgot that Christmas was a totally unique winter holiday that definitely didn’t borrow any traditions from Yule and the Norse or Saturnalia and the Romans which as we all know is not where Vatican City is located nor did the Roman Empire make Catholicism the official state religion in the 300s AD. And wow I totally forgot the english language was completely perfectly formed as it is today less than 300 years ago and isn’t the result of milennia of linguistic adaption of half a dozen different languages.
And I completely forgot to worship my culturally mandated Trump and Oprah statue this year and instead celebrated the Feast of the Seven Fishes and served a big pasta dinner on Christmas Eve and Day that has historically nothing to do Italy or the Italian migration to the United States. Ahh how could I be so careless and thoughtless and wow my memory is so bad.
Only if you are not a native speaker of that language, or always? Am I supposed to imitate how Americans botch the names of German car manufacturers like Porsche or Volkswagen if I ever go on vacation there?
In my experience, you’re exempt if it’s from your native language. Unless they can’t tell your native language from your accent (people can tell I’m not a native speaker of English, but they can’t tell what my native language is). British are similar.
Pronouncing things as they would be in the language they’re actually in is sometimes a faux pas in American culture, I’ve learned
And sometimes not doing it is. Versailles? Frenchify it unless you’re talking abouta small town in Kentucky. Paris? Pronounce it the same whether it’s the one in France or in Texas. Milan? Honestly no clue and I live here (America, not italy)
Yeah, it’s weird. Sometimes people think it’s pretentious and sometimes people think you’re an idiot, whether you do it correctly or not. Like all rules with the English language, it’s a case-by-case issue. If anyone tells you a rule to remember it, it’s likely wrong more often than it’s correct.
Let’s be fair: doing things the correct way, or just being slightly educated, is often a faux pas in this wasteland pretending to be a civilization.
The cultural backlash comes not from ‘pronouncing things correctly makes you sound educated’ but because people that do this are adopting an accent for one singular word, and that is often perceived as them attempting to imply some connection to that group/culture that they do not have.
Americans, white Americans especially, have essentially no cultural heritage to draw on. It’s why we latch onto things like a grandparent being from Ireland and thence go around calling ourselves Irish-American, or the confederate stans. People with a rich cultural history are generally viewed as extremely interesting, too, so when another american adopts characteristics from a culture they have no real connection with, it’s perceived as a deeply tacky attempt to gain social clout. Its akin to being presented with a lesser form of weaboo.
(to be fair, this does happen with the perception of educated people too. “Use real words” and all that, so you’re not really wrong just a bit wide of the mark on the particulars)
What do you mean, “white Americans have no cultural heritage”? Your culture runs the planet and has been a going concern for several centuries across hundreds of millions of people. We are in twenty twenty five, good sir. AD. Place got colonized in the sixteenth century. Half of Europe was in a completely different country back then, even discounting all the American history that goes before that.
And yeah, it’s weird that you latch on to foreign ancestry as a substitute. I’d joke about it, but I’m here getting all pissy about the US equivalent, so it’d be hypocritical, I suppose.
It’s our national Mythology, we’re a land of migrants and refugees. People have been coming to this land for 500 years, yeah that’s a long time compared to our perspective, but there are traditions and cultures in Europe that predate even knowing about the existence of other land in another hemisphere by an additional 1000 years.
And the culture you describe as dominant over the world while yes is predominantly white, is just unchecked capitalism and neoliberalism and a product of whoever controls the largest military and acts as the economic measuring stick to the rest of the world and that if any other nation were to unseat the US as the dominant economic and militant force, then their oligarch’s culture would dominate the planet.
Yeah, that’s your culture. I mean, time to own it.
For one thing, the rest of us out here don’t make that much of a distinction between different US subcultures. Trump is American culture, Oprah is American culture. They’re all pretty much the same thing.
For another, have some accountability. You guys did this, and yet you all insist it was not you you and you all feel so much more connected to wherever else. No. Stop it. Own it or change it.
Also, as a side point, man, do Americans love to exoticize how old everywhere else is. Yeah, sure, there are a bunch of medieval castles around and a few cultural remnants in traditions, but by and large most European folklore is rooted in some 18th/19th century crap, just like in the US. Europeans aren’t out there having Saturnalia parties.
Ahh yes I completely forgot that the monarchies of European nations only existed for the last 300 years and are in no way historically backed by a religion that’s existed for almost 2000 years which was has a hole book very significanly based on another religion dating back 5000 years. And I totally forgot that Christmas was a totally unique winter holiday that definitely didn’t borrow any traditions from Yule and the Norse or Saturnalia and the Romans which as we all know is not where Vatican City is located nor did the Roman Empire make Catholicism the official state religion in the 300s AD. And wow I totally forgot the english language was completely perfectly formed as it is today less than 300 years ago and isn’t the result of milennia of linguistic adaption of half a dozen different languages.
And I completely forgot to worship my culturally mandated Trump and Oprah statue this year and instead celebrated the Feast of the Seven Fishes and served a big pasta dinner on Christmas Eve and Day that has historically nothing to do Italy or the Italian migration to the United States. Ahh how could I be so careless and thoughtless and wow my memory is so bad.
Only if you are not a native speaker of that language, or always? Am I supposed to imitate how Americans botch the names of German car manufacturers like Porsche or Volkswagen if I ever go on vacation there?
In my experience, you’re exempt if it’s from your native language. Unless they can’t tell your native language from your accent (people can tell I’m not a native speaker of English, but they can’t tell what my native language is). British are similar.
But if you pronounce faux pas wrong, it’s also faux pas