I don’t think it was an accident. I mostly lean towards it being a troll move to spark outrage.
It can be two things.
It was to spark outrage, and to call out his racist Nazi Homies on the right.
The thing that bothers me most about this argument is, if it WAS indeed an accident, any decent person would be horrified it was taken that way, and would immediately clarify what they meant, or apologize and reaffirm that they are not a nazi.
And yet, it’s crickets from him. If he’s not willing to do that extremely basic thing, he doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. He’s a nazi.
He did it twice for emphasis. Elon Musk is a Nazi. Elon Musk wants to burn Jews and gay people.
I doubt that he wants to burn Jews and gay people.
Because he’s proven himself to be a sensible well regulated person?
There’s plenty of people in the world who are not sensible and not well regulated that don’t wish to burn Jews and gay people.
Complete bullshit. This whole, “no he was thanking and giving his heart to the crowd” excuse is such bullshit. There are so many ways to make that gesture.
The amount of hoops people will jump through to cover it up is mind-blowing. When it looks like a salute, when a country says it’s a salute, and when Nazis recognize it as a salute, yes, it’s a fucking salute.
He also said it after, which you’d only conceivably do to give post-hoc plausible deniability. If it was what he really meant, he’d say it before or during.
Hey there, everyone. I’m the center. Go check my history, you’ll be disgusted if you’re far left.
Yeah… this was not okay. We know what this is in the “center”. Fuck Elon Musk.
Yeah, I see John Cleese’s Advantages of Extremism skit is still as relevant as ever…
Relevant because it showcases liberals’ political illiteracy?
Not throwing any shade at Cleese though, he’s one of the few conservatives who was genuinely talented at comedy.
Center here, it was a full blown nazi salute and every other european centrist I know also know it was a full blown nazi salute. We dont want to assosciate with the people saying it wasn’t a nazi salute, they are either insanely stupid or undercover nazis.
It was definitely questionable. People saying it’s 100% are being unreasonable. There’s a large interpretation here.
And calling people names and trying to bully people into accepting your view is disturbing.
He threw his hand out from his heart and said my heart goes out to you. It’s definitely questionable.
Don’t point to a swastika and tell me it’s a windmill.
What was performed, is a textbook nazi salute. Start to finish.
No the hands grabbing the heart isn’t. Actual Nazis have said this.
And then throwing it out to the crowd is different.
WW2, might seem like a long time ago. But it really isn’t. We have video footage of Hitler himself. Performing this exact routine.
Would you like me to spoon-feed you a side by side comparison?
No doubt about the gesture. Why are literal neo nazis all over neo nazi media super happy about it? Why is the only video record of such heartfelt gestures from modern nazi rallies or black and white and in german/italian? only question is why a man from a nazi family backing a party who is changing the constitutuon in order to harass minorities would do such a thing. 3 times in a row.
If you think the gesture means heartfelt thanks go do it infront of a synagogue, infront of your boss and in a highly public place. Its an EXTREMELY common gesture americans use all the time, right?
Center-right, previously strong (not far) right. That was clearly two Nazi salutes done by a drugged out oligarch. There’s no way around it.
As a European center, does that put you between the radical far left (community based government, right to eat, right to housing, right to education, medical care for all, meeting and exceeding the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, etc.) and the radical far right (Monarchy, Totalitarian Oligarchy, the thing that Trump and Musk want, and will have to fight for)?
Or is it centrist as in between Neoliberal and MAGA?
The reason I ask is because here in the states Centrist means the latter, e.g. people who still hate the homeless and expect immigrants to go through (nonexistent for most) legal channels.
It puts us at free education including university, free healthcare, shorter work week and days, human rights, right to self govern, limits to make housing affordable, electricity affordable, not to pollute, you know all the shit that we have and want to keep. Leaning left or right mostly means how you want the money for all that to come from and questions like how to deal with immigration. I personally believe the way to utopia is through making free specialized or higher education possible for even those who have nothing as educated population doesn’t elect stupid ass parties, is wealthy and pays more taxes to support the society.
extreme left wants to use violence in order to get rid of everyone they deem unfit for their ideal society extreme right wants to use violence in order to get rid of everyone they deem unfit for their ideal society
Leaning left or right mostly means how you want the money for all that to come from
You just have no study of history or politics, that’s the difference. You believe that “high education” will magically solve wealth inequality, oligarchy/monopoly, and the drive for ever-increasing and maximized profit that is intrinsically opposed to a welfare state and to ecological conservation.
Restrictions implanted to not let companies exploit people do that. Takes not stupid people to make smart decisions. Works in my country. Works for welfare states. I’m fine in my country. We were part of the soviet union, we know exactly how oppression, totaliatarian control of the ruling class, genocide, mass murder, oligarchy run government, inequality and systematic ecological catastrophies look like. This is why we want to do better.
Restrictions implanted to not let companies exploit people do that
And how are you exactly going to do that as long as companies control the government, as they do in capitalism? How’s regulation working so far, with every country violating the IPCC recommendations?
Works in my country. Works for welfare states
Bullshit. All “welfare states” rely on unequal exchange through the exploitation of the global south. Without poor people on the other side of the world extracting resources for misery wages and toiling their lives away at sweatshops, your country would have no welfare.
We were part of the soviet union, we know exactly how oppression, totaliatarian control of the ruling class, genocide, mass murder, oligarchy run government, inequality and systematic ecological catastrophies look like.
How old were you exactly in 1991?
extreme left wants to use violence in order to get rid of everyone they deem unfit for their ideal society
lmao there’s a difference between using violence to remove the capitalist class from power and using violence to genocide minorities.
I know you are being downvoted but I feel similar for the most part, I do find that not all countries versions of the left-centre-right divide marry up to each other and even the terminologies can get confusing. e.g in UK we have Liberal Democrats who are the only Centre party but the word Liberal in there can cause confusion for others. In Scotland we have free education including all the way through to degrees at universities etc thought that was started by the left wing government, the centre party wants to keep it as does the right wing.
I cant be upset about downvoting. Americans have to deal with it, not my problem. And they will get third and fourth term if they keep downvoting people who don’t self identify as extreme left or view violence as a solution. Those “eat the rich” folk have been fed propaganda material on the silver platter and all they do is alienate popular support they need for a functional society even further. Fuck them then.
If it’s any consolation, in Australia that’d make you far-left.
I do believe a lot of people – and the mainstream news media here in the states – want to believe this is normal and this is fine the way Trump kept wishing on camera COVID-19 was going to just go away on its own, even as CDC discovered enough instances to declare it has infected the community (e.g. the American public) and could no longer be contained via specific isolation.
They are so desperate to for things to be normal that they want to justify the outrageousness as within the threshold of normal any way they can.
I’m not sure, but Trump behaves as if he likes pushing that envelope, much the way he forced Robert Kennedy Jr. to eat McDonalds to assert dominance.
When we say Mangione the 1%, we mean all of them.
By income, right? I like my dentist.
Multiple accidents in a row. Accidentally doing the same thing multiple times with a smile on your face. Enthusiastically making a mistake, repeating it, and not commenting about the mistake.
These are all examples of how people act when they make mistakes.
I swear this admin could hang up a giant swastika flag in the Oval Office and the media would defend it as “they’re just honoring Usha Vance’s Hindu heritage, it doesn’t matter that it’s diagonal in a white circle on a red background with the 14 Words underneath, it’s a symbol of peace and prosperity”
Also accidentally following a ton of Nazi accounts on Twitter and replying ‘interesting!’ or ‘you’re absolutely right!’ whenever those accounts blame the Jews/globalists/immigrants for anything.
Also saying the afd was the way to save Germany
We need to stop using the word ‘accident’. Accident my hole, he wanted to see if he could get away with it. So far he has.
it would have been better if it was a smile; he looked a bit too angry while talking “about his heart”
I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
If I don’t survive, tell my wife hello.
Code beige
What exactly is the “context” for doing a full-on nazi salute? Other than to show everyone that you’re a nazi?
Heres context. At the time I didnt put together that he really meant the national kind.
I don’t like Elon. I think he’s not very smart, and I want him far from the government. I suspect he’s cozying up to Trump to get funding for SpaceX, and electric vehicle subsidies, and he’ll probably continue his underhanded battle against any kind of good public transit.
If you watch it as a video, he says “my heart goes out to you”, puts his hand on his heart, then does a throwing motion, that ends with his hand up, and out to the side. Then he turns to a different part of the crowd, and does the same motion again.
It’s not an accident, it’s an awkward gesture, because he’s an awkward person. A Nazi salute has the arm held up, and directly forward from the shoulder for some time. His arm is out to the side, and only there for a moment. Unfortunately, there are probably neonazis too stupid to know the differences.
Treating everything as Nazi symbolism means that more and more people won’t hear alarm bells when you say there’s Nazi imagery, so the media pushing hoaxes like this is bad for public discourse as a whole.
Because it’s not a nazi salute. You guys are acting like Nazis
It’s disturbing how aggressive you all are
There are gifs of side by side comparison with literally Hitler doing the exact same movement. There side by side gifs with neo-nazis doing the exact same movement. You have Germans saying “Yeah, that was totally a nazi salute”. You have historians saying it was a nazi salute.
But okay, let’s say it wasn’t a Nazi salute. There’s mainstream sentiment clearly indicating that people thought it was a Nazi salute and he definitely is aware of that sentiment. Why hasn’t he said “it wasn’t a nazi salute. I never intended to make it seem like it was.”? Any sane person would instantly try to distance themselves from being perceived as a Nazi because nobody, besides a dumbass nazi, would want to be associated with nazis.
It’s literally, a nazi salute. And I don’t use the word literally often.
The only thing disturbing aside from the salute is people like you defending it
A women hitting a neo nazi, is a nazi salute?
No. It’s a woman aggressively fighting a nazi. As one should.
It’s right out of Trump’s playbook. You do something outrageous and evil, with just a smidgen of deniability… it gets them attention. That’s what they crave, to lead the news cycle, to be hated by the left but maintain enough deniability that the center and right will still be on your side. This is Trump 101.
That is the fascist playbook. Testing the water to see what you can get away with now while normalising new levels of evil.
He said the magic words “my heart to you” clearly clarifies that his salute was meant to be that, duh /s
You mean well before what he actually said during the sieg heils
“It is thanks to you, that the future of civilization is assured.”
=
Elon Musk inner thoughts: I should Nazi salute. Do it. Do it you pussy. Think of the news it’ll generate. Think of all the votes, oh god I’ll make all the democrats cry that I’m a nazi when I’m not even a nazi! Fuck, lets do it!
nazi salute
Oh god that was awkward as fuck. Okay, let’s do it twice, then make sure they know I’m serious and it wasn’t just some weird fucked up tic I do.
SIEG HEILS even harder
MMHPPHPHPHHHHHHHH SUCK IT AOC.
Who did he send his heart out to? Oh no. Oh nononono
Someone should take his heart out. (in minecraft)
Heat of the moment, not everyone you don’t like is a Nazi
At least those are the excuses I’ve seen
Only valid for the American political.
All my friends here in Europe, up to and including centre right, are the far left wojak in this meme
European here. Our centrists would be considered left by americans and not a single one I know thinks it wasn’t a nazi salute who wasnt a right winger nut job.
Why are you calling everyone who didn’t agree with names?
It’s shocking how aggressive you guys are.
You misunderstood i wasn’t calling anyone names i was extending my thanks. What are you stupid that you don’t understand very common words?
See you’re an aggressive person. It’s pretty disturbing
Why would you find extremely common words used to express my heart being extended to you in gratitude agressive?
What is wrong with you?
No one does that on accident. This will be far worse than most expect
He also did it twice in a row.
He makes the face that a 12-year-old would make when trying to be cool and do something they’re not supposed to. It’s a recurring thing with him, both acting and looking like a shitty child.
Well, since he did it in the opposite direction, it cancels out the first one!
I feel like “noo it wasn’t a Nazi salute, or uh, it wasn’t intentional” is more of a “right of center” response instead of a “center” response, and “Elon Musk just did a Nazi salute on live TV” is closer to center, but otherwise this seems accurate.
Maybe the Overton window has shifted so far right that I’m wrong about that, though.
The problem is that America has no mainstream centrist or leftist media. It’s either center-right or far-right. The closest we get to a progressive are comics like John Stewart and John Oliver.
On this case, the “noo it wasn’t a Nazi salute, or uh, it wasn’t intentional” is a “nazis paid me to say this” response. At best it’s “I haven’t seen it, and I don’t trust you” answer.
But well, the people criticizing “centrists” are usually on that later category, and usually for good reason, so their experience may be biased.
None of the mainstream media wanted to call it out for what it was. They profess to be centrist, but you could indeed probably classify them as centre right, especially when it comes to economic issues.
A lot of people defending Elon but I still haven’t seen Elon defend Elon. Concerning.
He reportedly did a tweet mocking people for calling him Hitler (which I saw elsewhere since I’m not a user of his site). Incredibly, of all people, the ADL also chirped out the same “it was an accident” line as the media.
ADL? What’s that? Aryan Defense League?
Apartheid Defense League
The Anti-Defamation League is an influential NGO that’s supposed to fight antisemitism. Probably because Trump has repeatedly shown a fondness for Netanyahu, they’re apparently throwing Jewish people under the bus to sweep this under the rug.
*edit - Just occurred to me that might’ve been a joke. Doesn’t hurt to have this up for those who don’t know tho.
The association of German National Jews supported Hitler. Turns out it was a mistake.
More like AIPAC Defense League
I think he made some tweets about it
What did he say? I only saw him reply to a tweet saying that accusing everyone of being Nazi is getting tired, but I didn’t see that he actually commented on the salute.
Yeah i don’t think be ever explained what that gesture was supposed to be, he only retweeted posts and memes that were in his defense
Edit: i just watched the full clip for the first time, i didn’t know he says “my heart goes out to you” after so i guess that’s his alibi
Your scale is way off, the whole scale should be between right of centre and far right
