As a cyclist, two people cycling side by side while other vehicles are waiting to pass is a bit of a dick move tbh.
Not illegal, and nothing compared to the shit that drivers do to cyclists, but still a bit of a dick move.
Cycling two abreast is better for the driver, since they can overtake much quicker.
That image is quite a niche scenario and doesn’t represent the situation in the original image.
Obviously it’s different with a group of eight compared to just two people…
niche scenario
Never been to a country where road cycling is massive then? Try living in anyplace that has Alps in it lol
You’re right. I live in a city and have never seen more than four people cycling together.
It’s almost like cycling in the alps is a niche situation, and cycling in cities happens much more frequently 🤔
That all depends on the type of cycling, and what you call a city
How is it different though? In the original picture you can safely overtake the two of them in about half the time and half the available opening in traffic compared to them riding single file.
That’s not safely overtaking. That’s squeezing through and if there’s a chance vehicle will get hit he will push the cyclists out.
Because the image assumes that a driver can only ever safely overtake if they’re completely in the other lane, which simply isn’t true.
It also assumes that there will be an opportunity where the other lane is completely free for them to move into it.
Overtaking eight people in a line is going to have a large time saving if they’re cycling in twos, but when you scale that down to just two then the difference is negligible and the space saving is more important.
Your theory rests on the assumption that I value my life and safety lower than two seconds the driver could shave off of their journey time. Or thirty seconds. Or two days.
Well, buddy, you’re wrong.
Even if I’m riding alone I’m not riding in the gutter where I have a greater risk of puncture from debris, and a greater risk of some idiot close passing in a 3 ton umbrella.
I don’t think you understand the point of the image
Have a closer read of points 2 and 3 in the image. For most lanes there isn’t enough width for cyclist + wobbling side to side + 1.5m margin + car. So the car needs to overtake in the other lane, which means the other lane needs to be completely free of cars.
In my experience this is like 80% of overtaking situations when cycling. Far from niche.
Great image, but you see people really don’t want to use their steering wheels. And if possible they’d like pedestrian crossings removed as well. In ideal world there would be a race track from their home to exactly where they need to go and everyone else in traffic is a dick. Including other car drivers. Learning traffic laws and rules is too much of an effort anyway.
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The image appears to be from the UK. Here in the UK cyclists are supposed to stay at least 0.5m from the kerb, with a recommendation for more distance if possible (rule 72 of the Highway Code). Cars are supposed to keep at least 1.5m away from cyclists when overtaking (rule 163). Taking an average cyclist width of 60cm (some handlebars go much wider than that, as might pannier bags, but let’s use that as an average), that means a single cyclist should have control of ~2.6m of the lane at least.
Let’s say that the average lane on urban roads in the UK are around 3m wide (an estimate based on a quick google, not a rule), this means a legal overtake of a cyclist should have the car leaving no more than 40cm of the car in the lane. It’s not a big jump from that to moving entirely into the other lane.
Admittedly almost no one in the UK actually follows these rules, but this is how it’s supposed to be. Given that, adding another cyclist riding abreast shouldn’t affect overtaking time significantly, whereas the two cyclists riding in line will double the amount of time in the oncoming lane.
but if it was true you wouldn’t need an infographic.
That’s a shit argument.
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it doesn’t actually ever say why they should. It completely ignores that it obviously takes longer to drive across into the other lane and then back than to pass the cyclists
Because it’s SAFER. Oh my god, have we really got so selfish that a human life is worth like a second.
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As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, in the UK (which is where this image seems to be from), the “safe” passing distance for a car overtaking a bike is supposed to be 1.5m. Add that to the 0.5m minimum distance the cyclist is supposed to be from the kerb and the width of the cyclist themselves, and overtaking even a single cyclist should have the car almost entirely in the other lane anyway (UK lanes are typically narrower than their US counterparts).
Whether anyone actually follows those rules is another question, but that is how motorists are supposed to behave.
It is also written into our Highway Code that motorists should “give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car”
I disagree since overtaking a cyclist in the same lane is unsafe anyway. In the city I always cycle in the middle of the lane because it prevents unsafe takeovers and dooring.
So it’s a bit of a conundrum. Because there are pros and cons in riding abreast.
On one hand, cyclists are more compact and more visible. On the other filling whole lane would mean drivers behind them would have to time their overtaking. However, car drivers almost never leave enough space when overtaking cyclists and 100% never think about wind that might push them or that cyclist might need more space to avoid potholes and stuff. So being a dick driver is not exclusive to cyclists.
Traffic law, at least where I live, states when overtaking cyclists driver must leave enough space between him and the cyclist so as to not inconvenience cyclist. Which is vague and not helping one bit. However I think it’s far better to be forced to slow down and time overtaking than not slowing down and flying next to a single lane of cyclists. Because if and when there’s a car coming from opposite direction, car driver won’t care or look twice to move closer to the edge of the road and push others out.
Yes illegal, depending on the country.
Where do you see another vehicle “waiting to pass”? There’s absolutely nothing in this picture telling you how much traffic there is, how wide the road is, etc. Nothing.
What can be seen in the picture, however, is a car that, no matter the speed, is tailgating way too close. Which is a misdemeanor in some countries.
If cyclists can use the whole lane (common situation in the United States for example), it is (almost always) illegal for a driver to leave their drivable portion of the road to pass someone, bicyclist or otherwise. That includes crossing any lines, going to the opposite side of the road, being on the shoulder or sidewalk, etc.
Without a separate bicycle lane, it is not permitted to pass a bicyclist.
I’m not sure I’m understanding… as a driver you can legally pass by going into the opposing lane momentarily, as long as the line in the center is dashed (not solid) on your side and there is no oncoming traffic. That’s kind of the whole reason the center line is painted like that, combined with those signs that say “do not pass” and “pass with caution” when the line goes solid and back to dashed.
In that scenario, that would be part of the drivable area yes. However, that is exceedingly rare in the United States at least from my experience in smaller cities/suburbia (east coast). I regularly see people breaking the law by driving on the shoulder to go around someone turning left, and illegally crossing a solid double yellow line to pass a bicyclist.
In my experience in midwest suburbia the center line is almost always dashed unless there’s poor visibility (seeing around a tight curve or over a hill) or more than one lane of traffic in each direction (eliminating the need to overtake in opposing traffic). Or its a pedestrian zone, with reduced speed regardless.
True, some people break the laws. I don’t see it nearly as often as you claim to, and usually not in especially unsafe conditions, but the point stands that those people are selfish and impatient. I don’t see why bicyclists should have to sacrifice either their freedom (to bike to where they please and utilize existing public infrastructure) or their safety (by leaving the illusion that a full size vehicle might squeeze by at cruising speed) for such people. It’s not bicyclists’ fault that the infrastructure fails to serve all of its users equally.
Which is why everyone hates cyclists. Y’all are the left lane campers of the freeway.
If a sign is posted saying ‘Bicyclists may use full lane’ then that lane is now a bicycle lane with cars being allowed on it for some reason. Check your car brain.
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Transit should ideally be on its own section anyway (preferably on rails) and literally everyone has to pull to the side and yield to emergency vehicles. If their lights and siren are off and they are driving on a road/bicycle path in this case, yes they can wait.
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Bro you’re just getting in peoples way. Regardless of your opinion they’re not going to like you.
Regardless of your opinion, it is illegal
There’s a line between following the law and being a dick
Don’t hate the cyclists, hate the government. We all want separate cycle lanes.
In my city people are literally protesting new separated bicycle lanes by slashing the tires of rental bikes… Ridiculous
Some of those same people will then unironically complain about being “stuck behind a cyclist”.
Wrong, it’s easier and safer to overtake two cyclists abreast because you don’t have to be in the oncoming lane for as long
And just so we’re clear, the reason it’s a dick move is the car can move faster than the bike so blocking the car robs the people in the car if its full utility. They’re now forced to go your speed, which is probably less than the speed limit.
While we’re at it let’s just block emergency vehicles cuz they are even bigger taking up more space. Boo them for not all just havin bycycles and saving on emissions
Great image, however slightly wrong. In some countries car pictured should be a huge fucking truck which people use to go and buy Starbucks because of deadly combination of ego issues and laziness.
Mostly one country.
Canada is rapidly mirroring America with car centric design and “you’re only a man if you own a truck” mentality.
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Even small rural towns can be designed to very walkable and less car centric.
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I wish the diagram would have put little fart clouds labeled ‘Methane’ behind the bicyclists.
What I’m trying to say is that I crop dust a lot when I bike.
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They do catch fire. How so?
You left out the part where the ones on the bikes are going the fraction of the speed
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That’s only used in bike races, to act as a booster for extra speed/acceleration, much like a rocket does
And they left out that emergency vehicles and transit take up more room but really shouldn’t be blocked on speed just on argument of size and space alone. Not even cars would block based on ‘me smaller than them and take up less room’. So it’s a shit attitude and argument here all the way through about size and space as somehow more entitled.
Why state a car’s length in millimeters? Why state any length over a meter in millimeters?
Why doesn’t the world use the decimeter? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it used anywhere.
Using millimeters is pretty common in engineering.
So is using meters.
millimeters allow these numbers to be displayed as integers
Is that how numbers work, fascinating.
I’ve seen technical drawings where the dimension of something is 10000+ mm. At that point I feel like the whole utility of the metric system is moot.
I disagree with you. If you need five digits of precision, 12345 mm is precise and perfectly usable (and slightly less complex than 12,345 meters). Others might just say that the machine (or whatever) is twelve meters long. And all the math you need is removing three digits.
Yeah, I only use furlongs, rods, chains, and links in my calculations.
In countries that aren’t America, we use centimetres and metres. But it was suggested that yanks are a bit thick and might be happier using woodworkers units of millimetres and metres.
No one uses deci anything, in my experience.
I’ve seen deciliters around some places for beverages.
Interesting, only place I have seen them is in science fiction books, and the occasional scifi themed bar.
We use deci-bells to measure sound volume
Good point well argued. I had not thought of them!
Builders, carpenters, plumbers etc all state any length up to 10m in mm
My decimeters be decimating
Its quite common around here to see height restrictions signed in mm. For example a car park entrance might have a sign labeled 1800mm max height
I’m curious to see how the arguments for using mm instead of dm varies from the argument for using imperial vs metric. You’re right that there’s way better units to use here, but I think mm is used out of convention. Which is the exact same reason that feet and miles are used, because everyone is used to it.
Because too many people don’t understand sig figs
So people saying the bikes side by side are a dick move are implying that you have more right to the road because you’re driving a car?
Generally speaking, to do an overtake, a car needs to leave the lane completely, so it doesn’t matter whether it’s one or two bikes.
You are assuming drivers respect the safety distance from a lone biker…
It does matter. It’s safer for everyone if cyclists travel side by side in one lane because then the car driver has to spend less time in the oncoming lane to complete the overtake. A long string of bikes takes more time to safely pass.
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Most of the streets around here were built when the idea that every house could have a car would be viewed as a fantasy.
So you’ve got cars parked up and down each side of the road, and if two cars want to pass each other, then you have to hope that there’s space for one of you to pull over.
If you want to overtake even one bike, forget it. It’s probably got some balaclava wearing kid on it, weaving none-handed up the middle of the road.
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Gurl, what’s with the spooky bike fanfic
Would it be less of a dick move if it was a faster cyclist or a motorcyclist needing to pass by? No, it might actually be worse.
The point is that we need to do our best to respect other road users, regardless of their method of transportation. Pedestrians, cyclist, motorcyclists, cars, lorries and even animals (perhaps especially animals)
Any side-by-side vehicles increases the amount of space taken on the road, which means it should be avoided when other travellers need to pass by. It’s the same reason that lorries or cars travelling side-by-side at the same speed on the highway is often frowned upon.
I really don’t get people who want to wage a constant social war over our shared infrastructure by being assholes to each other. Being decent and considerate is safer and more pleasant for everybody involved.
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The answer is simple really. The car is one unit, the bikes (in this scenario) are two units, they don’t have to be considerate, but they have the option to do so.
I’ll give an equivalent example. Where I live we have a class of vehicles referred to as “moped cars”, same form factor as cars, but speed restricted to either 30 or 45 km/h. Usually they’re used by teens to get arouns in rural areas with poor public transit options, so they’ll often be trundling along on 70-90km/h roads at slow speed.
This can quickly lead to queues building up behind them during high traffic hours in areas with few passing opportunities. Quite often, when this happens, they’ll pull off to the side for a few seconds at an opportune spot to let other, faster vehicles, pass by. They don’t have to do this, but it is considerate.
As for the second half of your comment, each method of transportation has its niche and purpose. The best system is one that utilizes the strengths of each to complement the others. Attempting to apply a monolithic solution everywhere will generally lead to frustrations and inefficiencies.
Pedestrian - Trivial distances, any density.
Bike - Trivial -> Short distances, any density.
Cars - Short -> Long distances, low density.
Busses - Short -> Long distances, medium density.
Rail - Short -> Long distances, high density.
High Speed Rail - Medium -> Extreme distances, high density.
Air - Long -> Extreme distances, high density.
Are you really arguing that passing two bikes is the same maneuver as passing one? That second bike isn’t going to like it.
How so?
Passing two bikes requires moving over more. If you pass two bikes with the same manoeuvre you use for passing one with enough space, you’ll be far too close to the outer bike.
If my vehicle had the ability to change its width when I needed to, I’d agree with you, but my car does not have that option, the two bikes do, it wouldn’t take much effort for one to slide behind the other to let the vehicle behind pass, it’s a give and take with society, I’ll actively make sure to keep you safe from my vehicle, while bikes should actively try to allow larger or faster vehicles to pass safely instead of putting themselves at risk over something that takes no effort to do.
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Ohh and I don’t trust the bikes I see riding around, the amount of people on bikes who have crossed In front of me while I’m driving the speed limit while never once looking behind them, causing me to have to slam my brakes on because I don’t want to hit someone on a bike.
Both sides of this argument need to show respect to each other on the road, it’s not a bikes are the problem or cars are the problem, people are the problem.
Like I said I actively try to ensure you guys are safe on the road when I pass you or see you coming up in front.
If those cyclists were blocking an ambulance or transit which even take up more room, those cyclists are the biggest assholes on the planet. Size really isn’t the best argument here.
Operative word here being “were”.
There is no ambulance in this picture, nor do you know if the bikers are “blocking up the road”.
Do you always make up stories about barking up imaginary trees in a fantasy forest?
In my made up story the bikes are doing 40 in a 25 so the car has nothing to complain about anyway.
Ambulance and transit are both very different arguments from a single car.
Both the bikes and the car are supposed to make room for the ambulance.
Regulation about right of way for buses probably changes a lot between jurisdictions, so I don’t really have anything to say about that.
Not at all if the argument is size alone or just spouting emissions. It’s a dumb cartoon to pair with the title.
If the argument is size alone then there’s no concept of transit or ambulance or priorities.
It’s ridiculous to try to make a case against bikes by bringing up an imaginary emergency, but then taking that scenario away.
It’s simple. Replace that car with a fire truck. The cyclists look like the biggest asshole regardless of size of vehicle.
Look, if we’re inventing hypothetical scenarios, imagine there was a fire truck behind the car. Now the car drivers are clearly the bigger assholes.
cars pull over as that’s part of the drivers training. You get fined also and that’s part of the course. The cyclists take no training so if the picture were accurate, that car would have pulled over two blocks ago and the cyclists would still be blocking the fire truck. Oh and the warehouse will be burnt down killing all the workers on less than minimum wage all just cuz two cyclists felt entitled to be spiteful assholes.
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How I wish I lived in a part lf the world built and designed for bycicles or proper public transit.
Lemme tell you, that place does not exist in America 😂
Why must you hurt me like this?
Missed the part where the people in the car are obese.
I’m obese and I ride a bike. I just like to break the stereotype.
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It also works fine with just one person in the car.
Yeah, that’s the most unrealistic part of that. Almost every car here has only one person in it.
I love this sub so much. It’s as if confidently incorrect had a weird little clone with just the right mix of sass, poorly thought out arguments, and environmental awareness to vex both cyclists and drivers in equal amounts.
Oh gosh, metric that is too confusing. Can you convert it into units we can all understand like yards, feet, inches
/s
yeah, a global standard like imperial units 🙏
i was like, why is an ostrich riding a bike? and why are the people at the back not happier with it?
Drafting an ostrich on a bike sounds easier than drafting a human on a bike. Why haven’t we invested more in this technology?
As a usual biker, i say bikers riding like this why others want to overtake them (even other bikers), are jerks. Same for pedestrians, and everyone…
please, it clearly not an issue when the cyclists are sharing one lane.
if two cars were driving in tandem then it would be a better example.
