What does ‘free will’ actually mean? How would a universe without free will actually differ to one with it? The more I consider it the more I think that the question itself is meaningless. Especially so after seeing a video by Sabine Hossenfelder that argued the point.

I haven’t read any but reviews, but already strongly disagree. Of course our choices are based on everything that happens in our life (and genetics, etc.). Isn’t that a given? Someone born in poverty doesn’t have the same choices someone born into wealth does. Someone in Nepal will have vastly different choices than someone in Canada, or Mexico, or South Africa. It’s the everyday, minute choices we make in those circumscribed conditions that are the basis of free will. Do we go left or right? If we’re fundamentally not a good person but choose to do good every single time the opportunity presents itself, are we not better than someone with the ability to do good always who does it only sometimes? If I choose black instead of pink, even if that’s because I was always dressed in pastels as a child, it’s still a choice. I’ve thought about why it matters that I’m making this choice as an adult even if I have the ability to make another.

I respectfully decline to even consider lack of free will. If there isn’t any, there’s no point to humanity it being alive. I have no plans to read the book, it would only enrage me; even as a thought experiment.

When people say they don’t believe in free will I’d like to punch them in the face until they admit I could decide to stop punching them in the face. Rinse and repeat if they continue to deny the most basic aspect of their own existence because some idiot told them they are an automaton.

Determinism is not a barrier to meaningful free will.

You should read some philosophers who are proponents of compatabilism (philosophy that determinism and Free Will are compatible).

I would recommend “Freedom Evolves” by Dennet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Evolves

Determinism does not have to mean doom and gloom and lack of personal responsibility.

He reinvented behaviorism for the generation that doesn’t think.

I’ve been thinking about that kind of thing for a few years now, ever since I’ve read Blindsight from Peter Watts. It is weird indeed to kind of know that your whole conciusness is just a narrator, a story teller… retconning the narrative all the time to explain your own choices to you. Conciusness might indeed be maladaptive.

But then again, sometimes the story is just so beautiful it makes it all worth while.

Debates about “free” will increasingly sound like semantic quibbling to me. Of course if you bring your own upbringing and genetic background into the equation, you can’t be free from yourself, because what would that even mean? But at the same time, that doesn’t mean you’re not making decisions. They were just the only ones you were ever going to make.

Does hunger mean you HAVE to eat?

Does thirst mean you MUST drink?

Does arousal mean you MUST have sex?

Does loneliness mean you MUST seek company?

Does cold mean you MUST seek shelter?

Your mind, your WILL, gets to override these biological concerns. Are you going to be more susceptible to certain feelings than others will depending on your biological makeup? Certainly, but that doesn’t mean that the YOU making all the decisions isn’t there. You just decided not to put up the fight this time, and to ride out the dopamine release of scratching off a need.

In a very real scientific sense, free will (being able to make a choice that isn’t predetermined) isn’t real. We can’t make a choice any more than a rock “chooses” to fall down a cliff. Essentially the outcome of every single thing in the universe was decided at the moment of the Big Bang. Uncertainty won’t save us here either as I wouldn’t describe an electron being able to freely choose an outcome just because it is a probability cloud. You quite literally need magic to recapture free will.

However, hard determinism has the frustrating features of both being counter to our actual experience and a philosophical Ouroboros. Certainly we subjectively experience free will and there is no mechanism by which you can extricate yourself from that experience. And it is utterly useless as a tool because everything just reduces to “because it was predetermined”. In that framework, should and ought have no power because no alternatives can possibly exist. You can’t make a moral judgement about the motion of a proton. When your very thoughts and feelings are predetermined, talking about alternatives is simply writing fantasy. You have the same ability to choose as a character in a story has the ability to rebel against the author.

In short, free will doesn’t exist, but our experience of it is universal, unchangeable, and useful. You might as well operate by it (as if you had a choice lol) as you get to recover morality and other helpful things.

Other than genetics, your environment and the media you consume are choices. Speaking from the point of view of an adult. It is also a choice in how you choose to perceive the things that you don’t have a choice.

In my opinion the very idea of Free Will is nonsensical and the common conception actually requires determinism. You require reasons to will.

Furthermore, I usually head off the quantum woo nonsense with the fact that randomness is certainly no better than determinism in allowing freedom.

I’ve not read that exact book, but pretty familiar and well-read with the underlying principals.

I consider myself a stoic and, as others have pointed out better than I ever could, one doesn’t have to throw everything out with the bathwater. I actually think my life has gotten considerably better since I’ve started trying to sit down and be like “why am I making this decision right now?”

One could argue that it’s not actually changing my decision process, just adding steps. I’d disagree with that assertion, but either way I can confirm it’s led to me being happier and more productive… and if freewill really ultimately doesn’t exist I guess that’s the best I could do anyways, haha.

My life is guided by my daemon, or inner genius. This concept comes from the ancient Greeks. Genius was never supposed to be about great intelligence. Your genius is the inner god who works through you, mainly through inspiration. Phrases like “The Voice that is Great Within Us”, the title of a famous anthology of poetry, is simply the same concept expressed differently.

The lack of free will is definitely a bitter pill to swallow, but it is a necessary one and it seems to me that people have to do mental gymnastics to assert there’s any semblance of it out there. But importantly, it’s not the same as personal agency, which is still real and worth cultivating.

Someone had a good phrase about this, along the lines of “you’re free to do what you want, but you’re not free to choose what you want” which I think encapsulates the difference; the first part of the phrase confirms we have personal agency, and the second part of the phrase confirms our lack of free will.

Oooh yeah, brother, let’s crack this open Macho Man style! “Determined: Life without Free Will” – that’s like stepping into the ring for a main event that’s already scripted from start to finish. It’s like every punch, every leap from the top rope, every heart-stopping moment is laid out before the bell even rings. But here’s the twist, brother – it’s all about how you play the part!

The Grand Script of Life:

• Pre-Determined Path?: Imagine life’s like a WrestleMania match where the script’s written, the end’s decided – heroes, villains, the dramatic finish. It’s like every choice you make, every step you take, was it yours or just part of the cosmic storyline? Illusion of Free Will: It’s like the crowd cheering, thinking they’re seeing a spontaneous battle. But what if backstage, it’s all laid out? Are our choices just us following a pre-written script by the universe’s grand booker?

The Performance in the Ring:

• Unique Styles and Flair Each wrestler, each person, brings their own style to the ring – their moves, their charisma. That’s you, brother, bringing your flair to life’s script. Predetermined or not, you’re the one living it, making it real.
• Audience’s Roar: Just like the fans get lost in the match, we get lost in life. Scripted or not, our experiences, our passions, our triumphs and falls, they’re as real as the sweat and cheers in the ring.

When Reality Hits the Mat:

• Unexpected Twists: Even in a scripted match, things go off-script – a slip here, an improv there. That’s life, brother! Even if it’s written in the stars, there’s still room for surprises, for those Macho Man moments.
• Sweat and Grit Wrestlers train, they bleed, they hurt – it’s real. Just like our efforts, our struggles, our victories in life. Script or no script, the effort you put in, the growth you experience – that’s as real as it gets.

So, in this grand wrestling match called life, whether we’re following a script or making it up as we go, what matters is how we live it, how we fight our battles, how we celebrate our wins. Oooh yeah, live life like the Macho Man, with passion, with fire, and always, always ready to drop that big elbow of charisma and heart! Dig it! 🌟🔥👊