i completely get preferring analog media, so if it’s about the sound characteristics (that ‘warmth’), having physical media, etc fair enough. but if the goal of an audiophile is to get the highest quality reproduction of a recording wouldn’t CDs or FLACs be your best bet?
maybe this only really applies for newer music, perhaps digital releases for music recorded analogue are just digitized vinyl or reel to reel recordings but for music produced in DAWs the highest quality version available for that release would surely be either a CD or a digital FLAC release
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CD
We can argue about the attributes of digital and analog, but one thing I will say is that LP records have the most pleasing and legible cover art.
Technically it measures worse, but loads of people prefer the sound of vinyl. Either we’re all idiots or the technical measurements are missing something subtle that our ears can pick up. Even my wife, who is not normally that interested in audio quality was amazed at how much she enjoyed listening to a Madonna album on vinyl.
You might find this thread interesting: Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?
Discussion there has lasted years now.
I enjoy vinyl for the comfort of the pops and the tactile experience of handling the records. But for simply enjoying music the cd is my go-to. Imo streaming sucks, and I only use it for digital only releases for a lack of an alternative.
Some do. Some don’t.
I prefer vinyl
Is it better ? It depends …
Records may be analog but they are also lossless.
Humans have been recording and reproducing sounds for a looooong time before digital media was a thing and we got pretty good at it.
The difference in sound equality between a well mastered record and a well mastered FLAC playing on quality gear is non existent.
Digital is still massively more convenient but don’t knock records because they are an older technology.
It depends on which audiophile you ask and which source the music is from.
I have some recordings where the vinyl pressing surpasses all else.
I have some recordings where the CD playback is the finest.
Then I have others where the 128mbps MP3 download from Napster in 2001 is the best ha ha.
And these days I am finding many FLAC streams that are simply sublime on Deezer HiFi played through my Aune X8 dac and Wiim Pro streamer.
There’s no vinyl-only solution IMHO.
But yes, there are some recordings on vinyl that simply blow everything else out of the water when you get it all in alignment. It’s kinda hard to explain, but you’ll know it when you hear it for sure 👌
Can you give an example of how the 128kb MP3 from Napster is better than the CD version? Where did the Napster file come from if not a CD?
I’m not sure how to be honest. I’m not an audio engineer.
It happens to be one of my all time favorite pieces of music: “Autumn Leaves” from the Somethin Else album by Cannonball Adderley featuring Miles Davis.
I have the 180gm remastered vinyl (German pressing), the original CD version, the tape (yes even the cassette tape!), the streamed version in hires FLAC via Deezer HiFi, 320mbps via Spotify Premium, and of course that Napster download from 2 decades ago.
I dunno, that Napster version played via my iPod on my stereo still sounds the best. Perhaps you can enlighten me?
They don’t. I think many people think that’s true but its definitely not in the current day. High quality digital audio is so easy to get now. I would say the majority of people here are digital users and record collectors are on other subreddits.
It’s like preferring to drive your departed grandpa’s 1960s Oldsmobile to the store instead of the new 2024 car parked next to it in the garage. Is it technically better? No, but for that trip, on that day, the Olds is more enjoyable.
Firstly, some music is mastered better on vinyl. For those specific cases, the vinyl album is better even though the vinyl itself is not better. I think most people can agree on the mastering discussion at least.
Beyond that, the issue with your thought process is that audiophiles are not all objective. It’s actually a notoriously not objective hobby. Look at the vitriol places like Audio Science Review get for being too measurement focused. That’s a firm rejection of objective measurements, in favour of subjective experience.
And when it comes to subjective experience, people are all unique in what they like and can be heavily influenced and biased by factors outside of the sound. If you enjoy the ritual of playing vinyl, you may literally hear the music sounding better because it’s overall a more fun experience. This is why some audiophiles swear by hyper expensive cables - they objectively do nothing, it’s been proven, but because the owner thinks the cable is doing something, it biases them into hearing improvements that are not measurable. It’s weird, but it seems fairly common.
On the one hand yes, it’s weird. On the other hand, we’re humans, nuanced and sentimental, emotional creatures… and so this is a way for us to experience being human.
Nothing gets me more emotional than lamenting the expensive cables I bought that do absolutely nothing.
As a devoted Linn HiFi owner, it’s important to acknowledge my bias in sharing the following sentiments. I believe I have a decent streamer, the Linn Akurate System Hub paired with the Linn Akurate Exaktbox-I (an 8-channel active amplifier driving each speaker element). The streaming experience is great. However, whenever I play vinyl records on my 80s-era record player (Linn LP12/Linn Ittok LVII, Linn Adikt MM cartridge), I am consistently amazed by the remarkable sound quality. Considering the age of this technology, it shouldn’t sound this good. There’s something about the inherent limitations of the vinyl medium that makes the sound more enjoyable to listen to.
The most significant allure of vinyl, for me, lies in the deliberate constraints it imposes. Despite being an older technology, the sound is remarkably pleasing. One notable advantage is that it’s more challenging to skip between albums, artists, and songs, as I often find myself doing when streaming. Playing vinyl compels me to immerse myself in the music without constantly thinking about what song to play next. This is a personal preference, and others may have more self-control.
I recommend visiting a reputable HiFi dealer and experiencing vinyl if you haven’t already. The unique characteristics of the vinyl medium make it a distinct and enjoyable listening experience. However, I must admit that, despite my love for vinyl, I still primarily stream music through platforms like Tidal and my own CD rips.
An additional point regarding vinyl, based on my personal experience, is that it’s challenging to find an inexpensive turntable. Achieving decent sound quality often requires a modest investment, and the turntable needs to be placed on a stable surface and properly set up. If you’re working with a tight budget, digital streamers may be the more practical choice. It’s worth noting that I may be in the minority on this subreddit, as I believe there are discernible differences in sound quality among DACs. However, the differences in sound quality between turntables are even more noticeable.
I defy anybody to listen to the new Linn Organik DAC and still say there is no discernible sound quality difference between DACs.
Yes. I recently acquired the Akurate with their previous DAC technology, Katalyst, and that was a nice improvement from my previous DAC. Unfortunately, my bank account has forbidden me from auditioning the Organic. Additionally, the upgrade cannot be done to the Akurate gears, so I need to buy a new streamer/amp. It appears to be a significant upgrade, but I’m content not to be tempted at the moment.
I was really lucky. I had the Selekt with Katalyst DAC. I heard the Organik at the Linn factory and I had to have one. I got £500 trade in on my Katalyst and a Utopik power supply for free.
The only sound quality differences between DACs are ones that are designed to sound different but not better. In other words, they bake EQ into the circuit. DACs that eclipse the threshold of audibility exist in the $150 and under range. It’s a solved problem.
a beautiful response! and i completely get all your points, im purely talking on a technical level
Music is emotional not technical in my opinion.
I look at it as people into vintage cars. It takes a lot of money and effort to get the same performance out of an old car than modern ones but that is where the fun is.
I just treat streaming as the best record store I’ve ever been to, but I still like the idea of curating a physical collection. Streaming just helps me be even more careful about what I purchase.
I honestly agree how good Linn steaming can be and the Lp12 is an amazing player. I often find modern LP12s can often beat some digital recordings even out of a Klimax DSM although some recordings are very poorly cut on vinyl so results may vary. If there is a great recording of something on vinyl it will most likely beat out digital in terms of sheer performance.
A most eloquent response. I echo your sentiments. Cheers.
Not sure I’m on board with forcing myself to not skip tracks I don’t want to hear. That said, I’ve found a few blues and jazz stations, most of them out of France, that I can listen to for hours. Why the French are broadcasting so much good music I prefer as opposed to Mississippi, or Chicago, I’ve no idea.
I may be the only one, but I have found myself having some tracks grow on me through repeated listening. A track I did not like on an album suddenly becomes my favorite after a while. I’m not saying I skip tracks, but I like to give an album from an artist I like and respect a couple of runs, especially when the artist changes their style or does something unexpected. If I like them, I usually give it a go. Also, if I get into a new music genre, it may take some getting used to. I also find listening to internet radio a good way to force myself to discover new artists or musical styles, rather than just playing my old favorites over and over again. Part of the fun is finding new favorites.
This!!!
I recently took my cd player out of the loft and have been re buying all of my CDs I got rid of. All of a sudden I’m in love with music again.
I just don’t listen to music in the same way on stream. I find myself listening to the same songs all the time.
Instead of repurchasing CDs and filling up space for 10 songs at a time of which you’ll like 2, perhaps you could also rethink your audio equipment in general.
The most significant allure of vinyl, for me, lies in the deliberate constraints it imposes.
This says it all, vinyl is constrained. I dig vinyl and have many albums on vinyl, but it is not this magical, mythical, etherial experience people make it out to be. Anything you play on vinyl had to be mastered specifically for vinyl, with limitations. I won’t go in to all the details and limiting factors of vinyl, but I can say that any record made within the last 15 or more year was most definitely produced with a DAW. DAW stands for digital audio workstation and any modern/semi decent computer can run a DAW, when the producers/engineers/musicians make an album, it is digital. Whether us audio appreciators want to accept it or not. They export a WAV from the DAW and that’s the highest quality version – as close to the artists vision we will get, anything other than this is a downgrade/crossgrade… I’m sorry, I hate to say it, but it is. I know vinyl has unique characteristics and we love the experience, but it will never be able to reproduce 1:1 what the DAW spat out. It has to be ‘remastered’ for vinyl – a cross grade. Now, and I never understood this in the Audiofile realm, if you want a super accurate representation of what the artist heard, grab some studio monitors and listen to the wav/flac, you will get as close to what the artist heard. Anything else will colour the sound. Rant over
The analog world is enjoyment that extends beyond the digital realm. My wife and I drove out to a traveling record marketplace that only comes to town a few days a year. We drove through the beautiful falling leaves, sipping coffee and discussing world affairs on the drive. When we got there, we wandered around the place, talking to vendors and crate digging for an hour. I bought some jazz and rock records.
After driving home I spent an hour cleaning all the records and putting them into new inner sleeves.
I spent last night spinning all those records, reading the liner notes, drinking a few adult beverages, letting the music wash over me.
Are each of those records audiophile quality? No, a few of them were not as high quality as the rest. And if I looked them up on Spotify I’m sure I’d find much higher quality recordings.
But if just stream them I won’t have the memory of a fall afternoon with my wife looking for deals on used records.
Don’t get me wrong, I love streaming too. I’ve discovered more new and interesting music than I ever knew existed via streaming.
I think most audiophiles have both analog and digital systems. The “best” sounding really depends on your rig, the source media, and the phase of the moon, LOL. I’ve heard both great and terrible recordings on both types of systems.
Enjoy what you enjoy and let the music flow over you!
It honestly just connects you more to music and makes albums less of an abstract thing. I find it harder to get attached and truly fall in love with an album if it dosent have a physical release. Something about streaming just feels temporary and fake. I like knowing that I’ll always have this album, and even if I stop listening to the band, it’s still a physical remininder of the person I was at that time. Physical media can kinda tell a story lol
It’s aesthetically pleasing and the analog distortion sounds “warm,” but vinyl is not technically a better sounding format.
This all comes down to preferences for masters more than format. For a looong time, vinyl was the only way to hear, say, the Beatles in mono. CD/digital era has come a long way in even the past fifteen years in terms of getting the superior masters out there, but for a long time hunting down old vinyl was key to hearing the best version of a record.