I was about to pick up house in the Cerulean sea and a few of TJ klunes other books that I own and of course he’s problematic. It has to do with the 60s scoop that involved Native Americans and what horrible things happen to them. My father being a part of that as a Native American himself and a young teen when it happened. He basically used a traumatic time in history as inspiration for his story house in the Cerulean sea. Which is not okay and he’s coming out with a second book to that one next year. I don’t think the publishers should be going forward with this next book but of course they will cuz it’s going to make them money. Should I now tell people the talk about this book but he’s problematic and after that let them do their own research or not say anything?
I read the book earlier this year and I enjoyed it. I didn’t even know it was regarding the 60’s scoop or Indigenous People until I read about the backlash online afterwards. I personally thought it was about discrimination based around something we can’t control, such as being queer, or born with a specific skintone, etc.
Please read the Reddit post “In Defence of T.J. Klune and The House in the Cerulean Sea (and Also a Review)”
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/s/li41oCqsoo
It describes exactly the sentiment you’re trying to make but explains why it’s not the case way better than I ever can.
Ive already pre-ordered my copy of the sequel.
It’s called separating the art from the artist.
Or, you know, you can also just choose to let the left dictate what you can and cannot enjoy. Doesn’t sound like a fun path but it’s the one you’re choosing
Authors don’t control where they get their ideas from. And the book itself isn’t mocking the tragedy or promoting it or even all that related to it. I personally don’t see how that is even slightly problematic. Authors do this all the time, it’s how being an author is!
It kind of is mocking it, though. In real life, the children in these “schools” were horribly abused and died in droves. We keep discovering mass graves near the sites of these places. In the book, the kids are all happy and the guy who runs the school is kind, and nobody ever stops to consider sending these kids back to their families. It’s like if someone set a twee romantic comedy in a Holocaust-inspired concentration camp, where the guards are all friendly and the showers spray laughing gas. If he wanted to write a story about a fun happy orphanage, he shouldn’t have gone around telling people it was about a genocide the survivors of which are still alive today.
Sorry but I will apparently answer all of your comments lol.
The guy who runs this orphanage is kind… For a reason? The kids are NOT all happy, including about being taken from their family. Linus actual job is to make sure the orphanages are being good to the children? He has a pivotal moment about what actually happens to the children?
As I wrote in an earlier comment I do agree with the criticism about not even discussing a little about returning the kids to their parents. (If I remember correctly, it was a while ago).
I would not call it mocking based on this. Did he say it WAS about this or did he say it was inspired by this horrible events and several more like it?
[My idea] remained fuzzy until I stumbled across the Sixties Scoop, something I’d never heard of before, something I’d never been taught in school (I’m American, by the way). In Canada, beginning in the 1950s and continuing through the 1980s, indigenous children were taken from their homes and families and placed into government-sanctioned facilities, such as residential schools. The goal was for primarily white, middle-class families across Canada, the US, and even Europe—to adopt these children. It’s estimated that over 20,000 indigenous children were taken, and it wasn’t until 2017 that the families of those affected reached a financial settlement with the Canadian government totaling over eight hundred million dollars.
[…]
And so I began writing The House in the Cerulean Sea, imagining a world not so different from our own, where people who are different than the majority are controlled by those in power. The smallest of us—the children—are taken from their homes and placed into euphemistically named orphanages, overseen by caseworkers in DICOMY.
He says it was principally inspired by it, and he goes on about the '60s scoop for quite a while in the interview. He’s trying to draw this parallel very strongly. And my problem with the guy who runs the orphanage being kind is that the residential schools were horrifically abusive. They were explicitly made for the purpose of genocide. You can’t just repurpose that into a fun happy orphanage which the children love and which they’re all fighting to preserve. It’s garish.
And the kids are happy—at least, the ones at Arthur’s orphanage, which is what the story focuses on. They love Arthur, they love the orphanage, and they don’t want to be separated. They’re all fighting for the orphanage to stay open.
Again, it’s like a writing a story about a concentration camp where the guy running it is kind and all the inmates are a big happy family and everyone’s banding together to stop the camp from being closed. Take inspiration from whatever you want, by all means, but absolutely do not go around in interviews telling everyone “well I was thinking about the Holocaust and I wanted to raise awareness, so I started writing this book about how kindness could have turned the concentration camps into a happy and fulfilling environment.”
I’ve been finding out about the controversy by reading this, and your comment is really helpful. If he’s literally saying that this book is based on and inspired by the event, then I don’t see what his excuse is. It sounds like he was making a grab for relevance and it came back and bit him in the ass.
boy oh boy you’re entitlement on how the world works is fucking disgusting I hope you get a reality check at some point. One needs to learn that everything is important in this world no matter what you do. Good luck and I hope you open your eyes at some point
I honestly think you need to take a break from the internet. Somebody who isn’t internet-addicted wouldn’t think like this. It’d affecting your worldview and diminishing your ability to enjoy things.
That’s the benefit of fantasy fiction. You can take a real life situation that is rife with prejudice and hard opinions and turn it around. Turn it around so readers can see a different point of view,
I don’t know if you are one of the Original People of Canada or someone who is insulted on their behalf.
The Residential School system in Canada was horrendous. And horrendous is not a strong enough word for what it was, but I don’t know what that word would be.
However, throughout history right up to this day, horrendous things have been and are still being done to "different " people. Currently in China, Uyghur people are detained in re-education camps. While they are being re-educated they may also have a body parts removed. In Russia, Ukrainian badies, stolen from their families, are learning how to be Russian.
Though a specific incident was the inspiration, it has been a worldwide, problem throughout history. Albeit is a variety of forms and atrocities.
It’s good that you are thinking about what you are reading, Art is often an imitation of life.
Personally, I found the positive affirmations throughout the book to be wonderful. On the strength of that would highly recommend the book.
Thank you for this comment and giving me something to think about I appreciate it I will definitely take this into consideration
There is no such thing as “problematic”. Do you need someone’s approval to enjoy something? I certainly don’t.
Well I don’t want to harm people by the things that I read but that’s just me I can’t speak for everybody else
Specifically how would you be harming people by reading this book?
I think the reason people are guessing you’re a teenager is that you come across as though you haven’t actually formed any opinions on the topics you’re talking about. Rather, you appear to be doing your best to adopt and comply with other people’s opinions.
Because if you read these people’s works and support them by doing so it’s almost like you believe what they’re saying or you have the same beliefs as them and that’s not good
But nobody needs to know what you read!
Yes but what’s the point of reading books if you can’t share it with other people your love and sometimes dislike and discuss it with others that’s the only thing
How exactly do you harm anyone by reading a book? Please describe the process, do not use the buzz words.
I have no idea what buzzwords you’re talking about so I don’t know how I could explain it to you without the buzzwords
“I was about to pick up house in the Cerulean sea and a few of TJ klunes other books that I own and of course he’s problematic”
That literally was fabricated as far as I remember, like many “problematic” things people have done. Before hating on someone people really need to do some serious research before jumping on the hate bandwagon.
“He basically used a traumatic time in history as inspiration for his story house in the Cerulean sea”
He didn’t. He literally just said he encountered this story while researching for his book, the plot was already plotted, the books was already being written, he didn’t start making up the story from reading about them. My god.
Well thank you for sharing
I actively avoid learning about authors, actors or other artists/celebrities. It just makes it easier to separate the art from the artist.
A lot of people not me will tell you that you can’t do that at least that’s what I’ve been told a lot of times you can’t separate the two
I agree, it’s hard to support someone that you think is a horrible human, that is why I actively try to stay ignorant about what they say and do in their personal lives. I limit my news and my social media which really helps. Sometimes it’s hard to avoid information, but I’ve been doing this for years so I’m pretty good at it. I didn’t even read your post, just the title.
This may seem naive, but having been an activist for decades I’ve learned to filter what I choose to expose myself to and what I deem unimportant to stay current on. There is only so much empathy I have to give to the world so I choose to give it to a few select causes and simply ignore the rest. This was something I had to do to protect myself after getting very burnt out about 5 years into my activist journey.
Thank you for this very helpful comment and I might have to start doing this myself
It takes practice. I’m a retired Life Coach and editing media was always a part of my programs. Like any other habit, there will be times when you feel you are doing it well and times when you fall back into old patterns. Your priorities will change over time as well, so just make choices that help you feel better as often as you can and over time it will become easier.
Will do and I think that happens to the best of us but if we stick to it things should get better
I’d suggest you read Imogen, obviously instead. It’s a teen book but I enjoyed it and I think you could have some insights with it.
Thank you I’ll check that out
I think there’s a lot of value in books that present a thoughtful narrative about learning from the mistakes made but after a very quick google because of your post, that isn’t the case here. I’m glad to know this and will pass on the book.
It makes me think of a fairly recent issue with a book in my home. Our Ontario school boards have changed the 11th grade mandatory English to “Indigenous Voices”. So poems, songs and novels by Indigenous creators, reflecting their culture etc. My son was working on questions for The Diary of a Part Time Indian and asked for my opinion on something. Not sure either we googled and it turns out the author was reported for sexual harassment by 10 women https://www.npr.org/2018/03/05/589909379/it-just-felt-very-wrong-sherman-alexies-accusers-go-on-the-record
I did mention it in passing when I saw the teacher next (kid gets extra spec Ed support so we talk) but that’s about it.
I did use the opportunity to have a discussion with my then 16 yo son. One of many since he’s all OMG you’ve already said this lol. Good dude consent is #1.
So I hear you on how do you approach talking about these things. I am not Indigenous and I don’t want to insert myself but as a woman I had thoughts. Son 2 will be in this course next semester so I’ll know then if they picked a different book.
Sorry to add I wrote the title of the book incorrectly. It’s The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian.
This post feels like a marketing ploy to bring more exposure to the book
My apologies I don’t work for him and I would never try to Market something that people say is harmful
Do you believe everything that people say?
No I most certainly don’t
Then why do you believe that a book is harmful when you’ve never read it?
Because I’m choosing to listen to people who have said they were harmed by his book people that actually come from that background and if we didn’t listen to them their voices would never be heard
He basically used a traumatic time in history as inspiration for his story house in the Cerulean sea. Which is not okay
Personally, I think he should have been clear from the get-go about the inspiration.Traumatic events in history should be discussed and sometimes dealing with them in a less than direct manner (i.e. a speculative fiction inspired by) makes that discussion easier.
You make a fair point I can see what you’re saying here
I don’t know anything about the book. What specifically about the book is problematic to you? Did you read the book, like it, and then change your mind when someone else told you it’s problematic? It very well may be but I would hope you could make your own mind about it and explain why.
Sometimes you just have to separate the artist from the art. You can acknowledge that the art is good and maybe the person behind it is just so-so. If you find they are too problematic to support, buy their books second hand if you still want to read them. People are not perfect and art is created from all different sources. I feel this is true through lots of art scenes, especially in music.
A lot of people would tell you that you can’t do that even though at least that’s what a few people on book talk were saying last night
It is so easy to be seen as problematic these days. Everything we say and do is put on the internet for thousands to see. If you scrutinize someone’s life you’re likely to find things you don’t agree with. No one is perfect. That goes for artists of all types. I’m not saying what is going on with TJ Klune is right or wrong. But you can certainly choose how you support people you think are problematic. Buying second hand books doesn’t support the author at all and I think if you are worried about it, learning about the history that surrounds the story is another good step. Make yourself aware of that history and if you feel compelled to do something in support of that history all the better.
You don’t have to deny yourself good art because the artist is problematic. Maybe just be more conscious of how you support them and the history around their stories.