I’m curious to hear opinions on how bureaucracy/inefficiency impacts day to day life. We often hear how Western Europe is horrendous with being able to get things done efficiently- but I’m curious to hear for Europe as a whole, are there any exceptions? Would like to hear about the “less popular” expat locations in Europe.

For activities such as getting internet set up in a new flat; or having the heat break and needing the repair company to come look at it- which countries in Europe would be the most efficient?

  • Rob81196@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Honestly the UK 🇬🇧 compared to other places I’ve lived, Ireland 🇮🇪 Belgium 🇧🇪 and France 🇫🇷 the Uk government website is truly a godsend! The gov offices can be a bit tatty though

  • Stuffthatpig@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    The Netherlands has to rank high. Once you have your permit, it’s pretty much all online. It’s easy to deal with services and everyone speaks English which greases the groove a bit.

  • Thor-Marvel@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    The UK is the least bad in Western Europe. gov.uk is a good example. You can file your taxes, look op your tax record, apply for a drivers license or passport. All can be done online.

    France, Spain, Germany and Italy are all bad in their own way. France is extremely random. Things are clearly explained and why you show up they will tell you you’re missing XYZ. When you tell them it isn’t said anywhere, they’d shrug and say sorry that’s unfortunate.

    German bureaucracy is bad shit crazy. Everything has to be done in paper. Some departments still use fax.

    Italy and Spain there’s just this general sense of chaos and inefficiency.

    • leelam808@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I believe the nordic countries specifically Denmark has the best eGoverment in Europe.

    • Significant-Eagle291@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Try getting a passport if you are born to a father who served overseas in the forces.

      Takes at least 4 months.

      Britain is the worst ever.

    • wheatendoggo@alien.topOPB
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      1 year ago

      I have a lot of interaction with Germany professionally doing global technology deployments- when it comes time to plan out deployment for germany, everyone groans. The A4 paper story made me laugh. So real and relatable.

    • scodagama1@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Netherlands has all you say about UK and a bit more (like your education records, property registry, list of vehicles registered to your name etc)

      In general any standard procedure in the Netherlands is smooth. But I heard problems start when you want to do something not standard, that’s not covered by existing computer systems

      Also Polish e-government is surprisingly good nowadays, albeit sometimes tricky to navigate

      • RelativeOperation7@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        It is the strength and problem of the Dutch government. There is no human dimension in the government. Computer says yes 99% of the time. But when you need a government official wehn computer says no then shit hits the fan.

    • L6b1@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      In Italy, you need to take the folder. Government bureaucrats quail before the folder.

      Any folder will do, but it should have passport size photos, color copies of all official id documents (CdI, passport, TC, patente, CdS, etc), plus originals and copies of all official documents. The fatter and more paper filled the better. And it needs to have some type of closure to it to make the folder look more fancy.

      Just opening the folder and shuffling documents around is usually enough to help things along.

      Also, taking a baby with you gets you platinum, front of the line service.

      • chinacatlady@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        True! I work with Americans and Canadians to have their Italian citizenship by descent recognized in Sicily. I absolutely can agree with the folder 📁. We show up with a big binder filled with documents, photos, photocopies of everything and the comuni employees love it. I’ve never had trouble with the bureaucracy in Italy employing the folder method.

        And of course, making sure we are prepared by having everything they could possibly ask for in the folder. It helps to know the process and laws, but I’ve never found the Italians to be that difficult to work with.

        I praise them for their accuracy- US on the other hand, what a mess. It’s the only country I know of that will let people pick and choose their name for legal documents, it’s a mess trying to reconcile 100 years of made up names and changes just because someone decided they wanted to be called Jim instead of James on their marriage license.

        I’ll take Italian bureaucracy over the U.S. any day. And definitely over Spain - lived there for 2 years and got my driver’s license there, what a pain.

    • B0NSA1@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I literally got a doc sent back because it was on US letter size paper instead of European A4 paper.

      I’ve got the same for writing numbers in non-German way. I write 1 without left-top strike and 7 without strike in the middle. They were so furious about it.

  • GoblinsGym@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Switzerland is good for everyday life, especially if you rent from a decent landlord.

    Government is not very far on digital services, and can get very bureaucratic when things get more complicated.

      • lucylemon@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Vaud is very fast too. But it’s sort of 1/2 digital. In some cases you have to fill out a PDF and email it instead of submitting an online for. But the response is usually quite fast.

    • Professional_Ad_6462@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Well my Comparison to Switzerland in Europe is Portugal. Transferring my U.S. Drivers License in Switzerland was like dealing with Hertz with Gold service. I was in and out in 15 minutes. I received a call at home at 1800. “Mr Hansen I was going over my days work and noticed in the US you had an Ambulance and Motorcycle endorsement. Would you like to continue your unlimited motorcycle endorsement and I have friends on the local volunteer fire department I can introduce you if you like” all in accent-less English.

      Going into the DMV in Lisbon resembled more a Rugby scum than a line. The agent wanted me to take a test even though there is a treaty in place. The agent accused me of printing the Swiss abstract off my home computer.

      I would describe the difference as the Swiss treated me as if they worked for me and the Portuguese acted like my military drill Sergeant.

    • appelflappe@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Is it hard to find a decent landlord? I hear Switzerland is very good for tenants rights too

  • rokevoney@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Ireland scores well, down side being too much demand. So, govt services are quite accessible but getting a contractor to do some work means waiting

  • MainEnAcier@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Bulgaria, you have no paper but it’s a big problem in fact.

    For example, it’s hard to rent legally real estate. If you want to change your real estate nobody will tell you anything ( that’s why there are a lot of garbage everywhere)

    The Union seems to doesn’t exist.

  • DryWeetbix@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    There’s a lot of things I don’t like about the Netherlands, but I would say that it’s pretty efficient. Got my residence permit within a couple months of applying, and they let you stay legally while you wait for the outcome of your application. Then, once you have that, you can apply for a social security number. Can usually get an appointment within a month. Easy to get a bank account. The tax office takes care of most of your tax issues for you. Signing up for (mandatory) health insurance takes 10 mins.

    The downside is that the fine-tunes machine can fuck you over if anything weird happens. I know an American guy who moved over here for his wife, later got divorced, which made him ineligible for his residence permit, but the courts ordered that he live in the same town as his ex-wife for the sake of the kids. So, he legally had to stay in the country, but was technically an illegal resident, so he has no social security number, no legal address, no work rights, and no access to healthcare. Finally, after nearly a decade, he finally raised enough money to get a lawyer to take his case to sort it all out. The courts decided to deport him.

    That’s a horror story, but I have found in general that the Netherlands works well as long as you don’t fall between the cracks. If you do, you’re pretty boned.

      • DryWeetbix@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        No, but he would have broken the terms of his divorce agreement and forfeited his rights to see his children.

  • octipuss@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Romania is still affordable and rent/properties still cheap. Not for long tho as the prices are accelerating higher than a maglev. Cities like Cluj-Napoca are top of the list for high standard of living, foreign friendliness and english speaking

  • Yvorontsov@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    The Netherlands. Bureaucracy is minimal and pragmatic. You can even make deals with the tax office. Almost everything can be done online

  • hudibrastic@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    This is one of the few things I like in the Netherlands… there’s a government single sign-on, you get your ID and can log in to pretty much any government and government-related app/site

    There’s a central communication app (Berichtenbox) where you receive messages from virtually any government-related communication

    I can’t remember anything I had to do in person or God forbidden to use some old-fashioned mail/fax, apart from collecting the biometrics for my residence permit

    • RelativeOperation7@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      The only bad thing about the Dutch system is if you dont have that single sign-let’s say you are 88 years old without kids and computer illiterate) then communicating with the Government is very very hard.

      • torriethecat@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        There are cheap courses by libraries elderly can follow. My grandparents aged 84 and 88 own a computer and they can use it.