Was really surprised to see the difference in fumbles.
- Tua: 3177 yards passing, 69.8%, 4 fumbles lost
- Allen: 2875 yards passing, 69.6%, 3 fumbles lost
Winning covers up a lot of faults.
TBF the fumbles lost are more even. 2/3
Tua has been throwing some terrible picks lately, and there’s no excuse for a couple of them. He needs to clean that up. But at least half of those fumbles are atrocious snaps from our center(s).
Something I haven’t seen talked about in this thread is both teams rushing touchdowns
The Dolphins have 19 rushing touchdowns. Bills have 12, with 7 of those being Allen.
The teams fundamentally score differently, Allen is a lot more of the focus on the Bills offense compared to Tua. This isnt a bad thing mind you, but something to note when looking at total touchdowns when comparing the QBs. Theyre both elite and have had interception issues, especially this season
Saw a stat last week that Allen actually had more turnovers than turnover-worthy plays
Yup. Just insanely unlucky.
Zach Wilson the only AFCE quarterback with single digit interceptions
According to some media personalities that makes him the best quarterback.
Happy Gilmore accomplished that feat no more than an hour ago.
Well moron, good for Happy GilOHMYGOD!
I had to play it off Frankensteins fat foot, remember?
He’s also the only AFCE QB (sans boyle) with single digit TD throws.
Zach isn’t accurate enough to hit the defender.
He takes sacks instead of throwing picks
He got hacked!! Hackett made Russell Wilson look like the worse QB in the history of the NFL.
Yeah, but imagine if he had to play the Jets defense.
Using total fumbles is extremely disingenuous. Fumbles lost should be in your title.
Fumbles lost are literally right below the title. You had to click on the title to get into the thread, actively ignore that the context you’re asking for is there and then make this comment.
Correct. I point that out. Fumbles lost should be in the title not in the comment section. The title is using inconsistent metrics to make a disingenuous point
It’s disingenuous to ask to read one more line of text?
The title is pushing an inconsistent narrative. They could have made the same point using fumbles lost. Or they could have made a point of turnover worthy plays which actually helps Allens case even more.
Fumble recoveries are largely luck
Not on dropped snaps missed handoffs. Offensive predominantly recover those.
Also there is luck with interceptions as well but this isn’t including dropped interceptions. It’s using inconsistent metrics.
Tua has 22 TDs, 14 Turnovers
Allen has 29 TDs, 15 Turnovers
Both are turning it over too much for 11 games played. The main difference has been that the Dolphins run game is really good. Dolphins RBs have A LOT more TDs than Bills RBs.
Dolphins whole offense and supporting cast is better than the Bills. The Bills just fired their OC mid season because he stinks and Allen still puts up these numbers.
Bills have a better line, we have better weapons and a better playcaller. I refuse to get in the QB debate because both are good at what they do.
Funny way of saying Allen is clearly better ;)
Does whether a fumble is lost or not really matter when evaluating QB play? Like obviously it affects the outcome of the game, but they still lost the ball, just because one of them got lucky and had a lineman fall on the ball more often than the other doesn’t make them a better QB.
Allen also has 7 rushing TDs and Tua has none.
Problem is that Allen clusters his scoring and turnovers. Feast or famine works for the defense and some position players but not QB1 in the National Football League, Boomer! Let’s throw it back to Gus.
Allen has one of the lowest turnover worthy throws in the league, about 5 of his interceptions haven’t been remotely his fault
Down voted for PFF, I am guilty myself of scoffing at it when they said Allen has the most “turnover worthy throws” and now using it as an argument when he has a low amount of
He had a lot of turnover worthy throws last year though…
The Mahomes experience.
The bills have 18 turnovers as a team a little under 2/3rds of the regular season, whilst the dolphins have 19. Last year in 17 games the eagles had 19, chiefs had 23. Bills would have just under 28 and dolphins just over 29 if their averages through the first 11 games held up for the remaining 6.
Clearly looking at Super Bowl calibre teams, they both turn the ball over way too much, scoring is overrated as you can score every possession and be perfect as the QB, doesn’t matter if the other team plays the possession game properly.
Bills run game is fine but JA audibles out of run plays all the time
Few of allens could have been from a rb easily.
Thanks for writing this out more accurately compared to what OP posted. I was thinking Tua had 20 turnovers
Can you please explain to me because I still get 20 when I add up ops 10 and 10. Are those numbers incorrect?
Yes. Tua has 10 INTs and 4 lost fumbles (14 total turnovers). Josh has 12 INTs and 3 lost fumbles (15 total turnovers). The post has total fumbles listed so Tua has 10 fumbles but 6 were recovered by the offense and Josh has 4 fumbles but 1 was recovered by the offense.
this is gonna be a civil thread
Who’s the better golfer tho?
gareth bale
Plus he can do it on a cold wet night in Stoke
Aaron Rodgers
Better metric is PFF’s turnover worthy play % (lower is better)
Tua: 3.3% (19th best in NFL)
Allen: 2.4% (6th best in NFL)
If anyone is interested, here’s the top 5 and bottom 5 among QBs that have had over 285 passing attempts (basically at least half of games started).
Five best:
Dak Prescott (1.6%)
Matt Stafford (1.9%)
Joe Burrow (2.1%)
Kenny Pickett (2.1%)
Kirk Cousins (2.3%)
Five worst:
Geno Smith (3.9%)
Josh Dobbs (4.0%)
Brock Purdy (4.1%)
Mac Jones (5.1%)
Desmond Ridder (5.6%)
Not really PFF is a joke
I knew Pickett was elite!
blame canada
Allen: 2.4% (6th best in the NFL)
I’m actually a big believer in PFF and put more weight in system/ranking than the average redditor…
But that is sus af.
Allen out there throwing hopes and prayers on a regular basis. Hell, he should have had 2 more INTs against Denver alone. He’s a turnover-prone gun slinger and always has been.
You’re basing this all off the Broncos game where one of his picks literally went shining off Gabe Davis’ hands? Lol
Well no, it was Allen’s fault because he threw it too hard!!!
Yeah that comment thread on the video of it was insane
Purdy can’t keep getting lucky right?
I’m guessing there’s a correlation between big time throws and turnover worthy plays
purdy elite
That boy be ballin
Listen buddy I was promised Dak Pickscott
KENNY PICKETT TOP 5 BABY (end my suffering)
He is really good at avoiding turnovers, and that allows us to win. He’d be an elite backup, come in, make safe throws, doesn’t turn the ball over.
I mean…it’s really easy to avoid turnovers when the only two places you’ll throw it are behind the LOS or 10 rows into the stands.
Weird when this stat was posted last week to credit Dak, all the comments were just critiquing there stat. “How can you measure turnover worthy plays? It’s completely subjective” etc.
How do the dorks at PFF determine if it’s turnover worthy maybe they’re just tight window throws
I think on a case by case basis it could be muddy. For example they didn’t call any of Tua’s throws in that game in Germany TWP, even though I’m sure some were.
Over a season though it’s fairly accurate, and a better - but still flawed - way of estimating how well QBs take care of the ball.
Most of them are pretty obvious, it’s just QBs throwing the ball to a DB that gets dropped lmao. Even if it’s subjective and not perfect, it’s way more accurate than blaming a QB for an INT that bounced off of an open WR’s hands
The latter is the classic Lamar Jackson interception
Should also note the most important thing is the ratio of big time throws to turnover worthy plays. Tua just about leads to league in big time throw rate at 6.4%. A 2:1 BTT/TWP ratio is elite.
Tua has been slinging it, of course that’s going to end up with more interceptions. You’re telling me a guy who throws it enough to hit 3000 yards in week 11 has a lot of picks? Who would have guessed.
Super unlucky is just the Buffalo football way
Are these free stats or need a pff sub?
Man I hate pff, but they say Kenny is good here so I’ll allow it.
We did want Tua to be more aggressive this seasons and, well, he is. For better or worse
From a grading POV he’s having the best year of his career.
You have to wonder how much is being covered by his coaching and Hill, but at the end of the day, he’s the one throwing those passes.
He’s having a great year. #2 ranked QB this year so far.
Five best:
Dak Prescott (1.6%)
I know most of you know that last year was weird, but it feels so good when its typed out
He had a broken thumb.
Allen is relied on to win games. Tua is an elite game manager. Our skill positions (we,tv,db) are relied on the to win games.
Allen is a TD machine, none of these stats are surprising
Most total TD’s in first 6 seasons of a career in NFL history. Dictionary definition TD machine.
Someone’s gonna come in and mention mahomes redshirting his first year, and how the record would be his otherwise, so I’ll save them the energy. First or second in that stat is big time no matter what. And Allen is number one anyway. Haters gonna hate
I think Mahomes getting to go straight into a super elite offense makes up for redshirting anyways.
Didn’t Allen start only a handful of games his first year?
If you’re breaking a Dan Marino record (or even passing a Dan Marino top 5) that’s fucking good for a QB. Period.
The number don’t lie. Time to release Josh Allen and bring back Nathan Peterman.
Tua thought he was taking tumbling lessons, turns out they were fumbling lessons
This is a funny tweet and Miami fans are soft for downvoting you
They’ll get over it one day, in the meantime we have some fuckin tables to demolish
Hope the players get home healthy and the fans get home drunk as shit
Well we have a pretty large body of evidence now that Tua is either 1) on time with the offense and accurate within 25 yards, or 2) a disaster waiting to happen. While absolutely never in between.
Why can’t people talk about QBs without using gross hyperbole
He was solid but not amazing yesterday. I suppose that seemed like amazing to you considering the level of QB play you’ve been forced to watch as a Giants fan
I guess having Tyreek schemed open by McDaniel has reset your expectations on how good a QB has to be. And fair enough, I’m jealous
>Was really surprised to see the difference in fumbles.
i’m not. Any of our RBs not named Achane or Mostert will practically hand the ball over to the defense, and our center isn’t even a center, leading to wild throws to the QB that he inevitably fumbles.