I hope this post fits the content and format of this community, if not I’m sorry.
I’m just incredibly shocked by the fact that an admin of the instance lemmy.dbzer0.com is openly supporting Hamas.
Here’s a link to the comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/61235665/23634712
Now how does the same admin feel about Bandera, Azov, the Russian Volunteer Corps, and the Prigozhin mutiny?
Prigozhin wasn’t fighting against imperialism, he was a Russian imperialist himself. his only problem was that he wasn’t in control of it
Hamas is in the same boat. They’re a jihadist group who want to impose their beliefs on to everyone else through violence. They themselves are imperialist. Just because Israel is that doesn’t mean they aren’t either.
ah yes, fighting for survival in a concentration camp is the same as Israeli settlers threatening to assimilate the Middle East into Greater Israel, I am very smart and totally not geopolitics-brained
ah yes, it’s crucial for survival that we must rape these women
Hamas isn’t fighting for survival, they directly responsible for turning Gaza into what it is today. Gaza back in 2005 and 2006 was a much better place, and Palestinians were actually optimistic about their future for once. Israel elected a left wing government for once, they unilaterally decided to entirely exit Gaza, they destroyed their settlements there, and Palestine held it’s second democratic election in its history. Things were actually looking okay, relatively speaking.
Just follow the timeline. Hamas got elected into power in 2006, this is what they did in chronological order:
Jan 2006 - Hamas wins the Palestinian legislative elections, and they immediately went back on their word by refusing to acknowledge Palestine’s past agreements with Israel. This led to the US, EU, Israel, and other countries to sanction Gaza and halt foreign aid until they met the terms they agreed to.
March 2006 - Hamas declared war on the Fatah and the PA, and they literally started fighting each other on the streets for the next 15 months. It was basically a civil war. This caused a rift between the West Bank and Gaza, and destroyed the hope of Palestinian unity.
June 2006 - Hamas carried out a cross border attack into Israel and kidnaps Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. This caused Israel to launch the biggest military offensive against Gaza in years.
June 2007 - Hamas violently seized control of Gaza from the PA, killing and expelling Fatah officials and put the final nail the coffin for a cohesive Palestinian state. Now Palestine was not only physically split into two territories, but each territory now had its own government that hated the other. They effectively turned the Palestinian nation into two weaker quasi states.
September 2007 - Israel and Egypt imposed a blockade on Gaza following Hamas’s takeover after their very open, direct, and repeated threats of attacking both countries every opportunity they get. This tanked Gaza’s economy.
December 2008 - Hamas launched hundreds of rockets against Israel, and this led to the 2008-200 Gaza war. In 3 weeks, Israel decisively won, and Gaza suffered heavy damages. Tens of thousands of destroyed buildings, hundreds of dead civilians, and a worsening humanitarian crises.
October 2011 - Hamas released Gilad Shalit in a prisoner exchange, but they gained absolutely nothing from holding him hostage.
November 2012 - Hamas launched thousands of rockets towards Israel than in 2008, which led to the 2012 Gaza war. Again, Israel, decisively won, and the results for Gaza were the same as last time except they were a bit better because this war was way shorter.
July 2013 - Egypt found out that Hamas has been digging tunnels into the Sinai without the Egyptian government’s approval for the purpose of smuggling weapons and soldiers in and out of Gaza. They immediately responded by shutting down the tunnel, and upping their restrictions. All the good will that was extended to Gaza under Mosri was wiped out by this.
June 2014 - Hamas militants kidnapped and murder three Israeli teenagers. This led to the 2014 Gaza war. Once Again, Israel decisively won. Gaza, yet again, suffered the same fate where they suffered the vast majority of deaths and damages. Except this war was longer (over 6 weeks), deadlier, and more destructive than the last two combined. Over 2000 Gazans lost their lives, around 65% were civilians.
2015/2016 - Israel and Egypt found even more Hamas tunnels that they used to smuggle weapons and soldiers. The blockades and restrictions were already in place so that didn’t change much, but it demonstrated that Hamas lacked the ability to plan out a genuine military strategy. They’ve been doing the same thing again and again for a decade despite failing every time. This caused the international community, especially the Arab world, to treat Hamas as a terrorist group, and started working towards building diplomatic relations with Israel.
October 2017 - Hamas signed a reconciliation agreement with the PA, but the deal collapsed within months because Hams refused to give up armed control of the strip even though the deal they signed mandated it. As usual, they didn’t follow through with their agreements.
March 2018 - Hamas hijacked a series of very successful peaceful marches organized by independent activists in Gaza and started using them as a cover to launch cross border raids against Israel. Israel retaliated any time they did, and thousands of Palestinian civilians were injured or killed as a result. These protests were originally supposed to last for about a month and half, but Hamas kept them and the raids going for nearly 2 years… which killed any momentum the original activists built up.
May 2021- Hamas launched thousands of rockets at Israeli cities, which led to the 2021 Gaza war. Israel decisively won in 11 days. Same results as before for Gaza.
April 2023 - Hamas launched hundreds of rockets over the course of two months as a retaliation for the Al Aqasa mosque fiasco that happened during that time. Israel launched air attacks and bombed Gaza.
October 2023 - Well there’s no need to explain this one or anything beyond because everyone and their mother knows what happened since. Needless to say, this was one of the biggest blunders any governing political entity in the 21st, especially when considering the consequences in hindsight.
The point of this whole write up is to simply demonstrate that Hamas has not been a force for good for the Palestinians in any capacity. They are directly responsible for turning Gaza into what it is today. It is their actions that directly led to the suffering to millions of Gazans for 20 years. This obviously doesn’t absolve Israel from their actions, but just because Israel has fucked over the Palestinians, that doesn’t mean Hamas hasn’t done so either. They’ve been the biggest obstacle in the way of Palestinians achieving literally anything. Can you imagine how differently things would’ve turned out if Hamas choose a slightly different course of action that the ones they actually did? This notion that Hamas is some resistance group that’s fighting the good fight for the survival of the Palestinians is complete bullshit. This idea only exists in the minds of Westerners who don’t know any better. The current Israeli government is filled with terrorists and war criminals, but so it Hamas. They’re not the friends of anybody and they shouldn’t be praised or defended because they’re genuinely awful.
Great write-up, but it won’t sway them. They’re too ingrained in seeing things from a US political cone of one side good, one side bad. The idea that there are multiple sides and some are worse than others just doesn’t make sense to them.
Normally when it comes to Hamas’ atrocities, they blame it on Israel or that Hamas had to perform a necessary evil. So you ask them, ‘Well, if Israel funds and fuels Hamas, then doesn’t that mean Hamas is bad for the Palestinians?’ – I’ve yet to have any of them actually reply, they usually just move on to something else.
These people have no principles or values. They’re not guided by a sense morality and they’re not seeking the best outcome. They’re ideologues that are driven purely by ideological narratives. To them things like facts, justice, consistency, and honesty are tools to be manipulated rather than standards to uphold and live by. That’s why they’re so ignorant, dishonest, inconsistent, unhinged, and hypocritical. They’re literally beyond irony.
How do you imagine a country ruled by Hamas, provided it had enough power and resources?
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to answer your dirty edit, the country of Palestine doesn’t even exist so they’d have no country to rule over. this isn’t me taking a jab at Palestinians but acknowledging just how thorough the settler state has been at eliminating any “two state solution”. and the governments of the world are too excited about eliminating Palestinians that they’d never allow a non-Zionist aligned party to rule over anything.
I mean if you’re not interested in fully entertaining the hypothetical, realistically, Prigozhin was very unlikely to achieve much either. Not only would there be a threat to his legitimacy and life from Putin himself, but also even if he somehow got to Putin, it would drastically destabilize the government and open the door to a revolution or another coup. In authoritarian and fascist countries like Russia, everything rests on the figure of the leader.
Moreover, there’s a difference between Prigozhin criticizing from the backseat and actually being the president. The West alone would be trying hard to offer him enough to get him to stop the war, and he’d not be as ideologically and historically entrenched in it as Putin to say no. An oligarch like him is highly opportunist.
they might’ve started out that way but at this point they’re merely fighting to stay alive. which can’t be said about Prigozhin because nobody forced him to go fight Ukraine
If we’re talking how it is rather than how it could be, Prigozhin is dead.
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