libs when june 4thers burn unarmed soldiers alive: the evil communists slaughtered a peaceful protest!
This specific lib, somehow: No, I dont believe they were violent. My beliefs are beyond observable fact. It does not matter whether something happened, just that I believe it or not.
Neat! Your beliefs dont matter in the face of observable reality (CW: Charred body) though. Observable reality, first hand sources and pictures from the event quite clearly demonstrate the Chinese protesters were violent.
Surely that’s becuase I have fallen for western propaganda but by that logic you have fallen for chinese propaganda
Either that, or they’ve actually bothered to learn about the event and you haven’t. You can just go look at the first-hand sources and make your own conclusions.
so discussion basically ends here.
Or you can be a passive-agressive little twerp who cant handle the notion they might have been wrong about something, so instead of doing some simple research (if it can even be called that when all the sources are served up to you on a silver platter) you retreat to a little hugbox where your beliefs are never challenged and you are reinforced as being the cleverest little boy in all the land, I guess. Kinda pathetic though.
Okay so for one I didn’t say there was propaganda, I said did the user with the china flag pfp plead ignorance, it would have verified that they fell for some kind of propaganda - namely some campaign aimed at restricting knowledge about the incident.
Right, and you thinking that that would be a possibility is the propaganda working on you.
A law permitting such action was in place.
I’m pretty sure lynching an army Choir and police officers; wildly firing guns, leading to several civilian casualties; attempting to affect regime-change at the behest of a foreign Intelligence Agency; and refusing any and all attempts at peaceful dispersal is quite illegal everywhere. Call me crazy, but I also think its pretty reasonable for such things to be illegal.
The last one is not true, even the CCP doesn’t deny there were at least 200 dead.
CCP
You’re so propagandised you can’t even correctly name the political party.
There was no “mass killing” because the term “mass killing” implies a wanton murder of defenseless civilians, which is not what happened. There were violent clashes between ARMED protesters (who were organised, funded and led by literal CIA-agents) and the Chinese military.
You can sympathise all you want, and there is plenty of actual critique to be made of the situation, but just because you sympathise with someone doesn’t mean you should suddenly present them as something they’re not. It weakens your case and does not aid in learning anything from a tragic event.
Anyway here’s a reading list for you to dismiss due to some ad hominem or other.
You know you can do this neat thing of looking into things before you speak, right?
BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it.
I find it disheartening when people talk out their ass on a subject they’ve only learned about from cultural osmosis, and they then think the pushback they receive is due to some doctrinal orthodoxy and not just because they’re talking out of their ass. People aren’t agreeing with your criticism because it is unfounded, not because it is criticism of China. If you posted something incorrect about the United States you’d likewise receive push back, and thats not because people here are nationalist democrats, but because that incorrect thing would likewise be unfounded.
You will see plenty of actual critique of China, especially its foreign policy, its trade with Israel, its actions during the sino-soviet split, it’s failure to curtail liberals, the regressive views of some of the old guard when it comes to queer people, its drug laws, and Im sure a bunch of other things as well. You will also see spirited discussion about things like the “great firewall”, state censorship, Dengism, and I dunno what else. The fact that things aren’t reduced to some simple binary “good/bad” is why you see this. Because, you know, things aren’t that simple.
What do you think should happen to people who
Personally I don’t think they should get run over by tanks, and it seems like the Chinese government didnt think so either, since that didnt happen. I do however think they should be stopped, the leaders and worst participants should be arrested and the “protest” should be dispersed, by the least violent means available, while minimizing threat to civilians. Which is also what happened, so…
Big fan of the bot/Russian/Chinese accusations.
Feels like there’s some pamflet called “Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is An Unthinking Machine Or A Filthy Foreigner and other racist conspiracies for the liberal mind” that they have all read.
Imagine the hubris to think China pays some guy to argue with you that it’s actually bad to bomb people or whatever.
Talk about propaganda working and then call the event an “extrajudicial mass killing”. Alright. Sounds like somebody blindly trusts capitalist propaganda. Go read the leaked cables. Or the other wealth of resources shared in this thread.
To have a conversation? To get further insight into how a person thinks? To gain understanding? To talk about the ideological framework through which the person views the world, and hopefully gain some perspective out of that talk?
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Yeah, its sad
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is A Bot.
Either that and school has just started and I got tired of just seeing hexbear stuff @BanMeFromPosting@hexbear.net
I keep seeing variations on this, and no one has been able to explain to me how that communication vector works. When has that ever worked?
Pretty simple. If I am doing a genocide, and you vote for me, it makes it clear you are at least apathetic about genocide.
The point isn’t to try to persuade the DNC (by doing literally nothing), the point is to slow the bleeding while we build what comes next.
Voting for the DNC does not slow the bleeding. Voting for the DNC makes it harder to build anything else.
Those are the main tools. Voting is the “other” tool. But it’s an easy tool, and it scales well with community organization. Seriously, take over a small municipality.
Depends on your analysis on electorialism in modern day America. I think it has some value locally, and in bigger elections its only positive use is to build momentum for leftist parties.
"Also"s don’t matter when you make the choice. The things that are the same are gonna be the same either way. What matters are the differences, and there are obvious differences. Like labelling “aintifa” a terrorist organization.
So not exactly, because I am arguing there is not practical difference between the two. I suppose the republicans are more overt, which is a positive, since it makes even liberals reel.
I don’t have the stomach to knowingly increase the suffering of others for political gain.
Sure you do. That’s what you do by voting for democrats.
Yes, you are right, the alternative to not voting for a genocidal fascist is immediate revolution. Good little lib.
Yeah like they did with Libya, Syria, Iraq and Russia. Like they did when they sent Pelosi to Taiwan and like they did when they whipped up a frenzy about a Chinese “spy balloon” they then themselves admitted was just meteorological equipment.
Which is great if you’re not one of the victims of the barbarism I guess. Personally, I don’t have the stomach to sacrifice others for political gain.
They said as they bemoaned people not being willing to vote for a genocidal fascist (who probably wouldn’t increase the price of gas as much).
Seems like you’re very comfortable with sacrificing others for political nothing though.
But, y’know, if the imperialism and genocide is invariant between the options, I’m still gonna vote for the one doing fewer other terrible things 🤷🏼
What’s the worst that could happen if I let the democrats know that not even genocide will cost them the election? What’s the worst that could happen by further entrenching the oligarchic uniparty? Surely the democrats won’t ever put me in the camps!
Obviously I’m also going to do everything I can to get to a point where I don’t have an imperialist, genocidal government. Mutual aid, canvassing for leftists in the primaries, political organization, developing community, taking over small municipalities, labor organization, etc.
No critique here, glad to see at least one blue dog understands there’s other tools.
All of which is gonna be a lot harder now that this side has declared antifascists to be a terrorist organization, and arrests people for pamphlets.
As opposed to the other side who also arrested peaceful protesters on bogus charges. Who also beat up protesters. Who also broke up strikes. Who also hounded leftist organisers.
The difference is that the media is more critical of it now. People are much more agitated under Trump. Organizing is easier in many ways.
Sure, vote for the DSA. Make sure to do more than vote though, as I have made abundantly clear. Go beyond electorialism.
How about one which isn’t run by the GOP and accomplishes more than peeling off enough votes to let them win?
The whole argument of voting for democrats, despite them having the same policies as republicans, is the argument that long term change can be affected.
If you buy that you must accept republican policy in order to slowly affect change, which you do by voting democrat, then the logical conclusion is that one must make that trade in the most effective manner. Which would be by voting third party.
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Happy you read. I would suggest you go through @Cowbee@lemmy.mls comment history for any questions you might have. He has gone through this discussion so many times almost anything you might want to ask about has already been answered at some point.
People treat you as you treat them. When you speak on a subject despite being clearly uneducated, and you speak as though you are an expert, then it is quite understandable that you get treated like the smug dumbass you are behaving like. This is common to almost all online (and IRL) communities. You probably just do not notice it because you rarely utter heterodox opinions without some actual academic foundation to do so.
People are especially likely to treat you poorly when you react as you do to pushback - that is to say with condescention, derision and a turning sophomoric attitude.