Do you condone or condemn the use of the term by… goys 😂
I understand the tentativeness to use the term but I’ve yet to see a fully articulated argument for it being fascist/reactionary ect.
Personally choosing to avoid it is sensible but denouncing other people without being able to establish why its wrong is… questionable.
Unlike other slurs like the n word, there isnt an established consensus on it. I would understand not giving a more sophisticated explanation for the denouncing of the use of the n word by a white person because its well established why its a slur. But goy is a different circumstance given its only recent rise in the western lexicon. “Me no like”, “4chan uses it” doesn’t hold water.
All I’ve really heard is reactionaries use it therefore you cant. Reactionaries also use Liberal, and woke. But obviously such terms are perfectly acceptable. (Woke as in a radlib ect).
Surely Palestinians, Muslims, ect are permissed, who is not?
How does it compare to technically ableist language like idiot, moron ect. I don’t see people policing such language at any level comparable to goy.
IMO the increase in the use of the word is net good and basically irrelevant. Making it into a bigger issue is counterproductive.
What can I say… I’m just a goy after all.
If Palestinians read this post I’m sure they’d be happy to hear that the imperial core is taking on the important issues like tone policing, and an examination of language fringe, irrelevant groypers use😍. /s
Okay, first of all, ‘goy’ is just a (less formal) synonym of ‘Gentile’; it comes from Hebrew גּוֹי, where it is likewise neutral, and it is not a pejorative like ‘shegetz’, ‘shiksa’, or (classically speaking) ‘uncircumcised one’. ‘Goy’ does have an informal tone to it in English, like calling somebody ‘dude’, but Jews do not usually apply the word contemptuously and I have called myself a ‘goy’ before. It is analogous to the Roma calling us ‘gadje’.
As for Gentiles using the word ‘goy’, I think that it is fine if they have proven theirselves trustworthy. If we know that you are Jew-friendly then it is unlikely to irk anybody, but if a stranger is using it then that is more questionable because we don’t know if they are either applying it in good faith or in a crude attempt to ape Jewish speech. With all of that being said, I am not Jewish myself, so my opinion does not count for much here. It would be better to consult somebody like @AYJANIBRAHIMOV@lemmygrad.ml for this — if he feels like weighing in.
Our dear comrade hasn’t posted in some time, and this isn’t the first time I’ve hoped all is okay.
He has been dealing with a lot lately; life has been a bit difficult for him since the beginning of 2026. He has not forgotten us, but he needs more time to recover.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Thank you for telling me.
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There are videos of israhelli soliders using it as a slur while expelling Palestinians.
Well yeah, it is a slur used by zionists towards non-jews.
The question is, if you are a non-jew, is it reactionary to use it? Tbh i don’t really see it as problematic enough to even care, even if some right wingers use it for themselves as well.
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How does this conflate judaism with zionism if the slur is used by zionist jews against non-jews.
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Fair, i can see an argument of needing to “meaningfully distinguish yourself” from such people tbh and direct victims of israel using it are surely seperate enough. Not exactly hateful to use for a whiteboy like me, but it does look weird if it’s in regular use.
Anyway, i don’t think this warrants much more thought. It is pretty a niche if not straight up irrelevant of a topic.
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I think obsessing over word use is counterproductive and it’s better to understand where people are actually coming from. Some words are coded one way or another way because of who tends to use them but in the end the user of a word can have very idiosyncratic intentions with it and it’s better to just take the time to get to know them and then you will know for sure how they’re meaning it.
In terms of my own communications I’d avoid it in serious (inc. jokes meant for a wide audience rather than a contained one) content because of the connotations.
I just read your responses to opiumfree post and honestly, by the way that you got hyperdefensive by misinterpreting their post as “everyone that uses the term goy is a reactionary”, and the fact you deemed the pfp a “thrist trap”, and brought up reddit drama from months ago it makes you seem extremely childish at best and a incel at worst.
I think you are the one that should put more effort into your posts.
Idk I’m just trying to be thorough and transparent. As I’m toeing a fine line.
I typed a response to theyre implicit accusation of me being an incel but my phone restarted before i posted it. Maybe I’ll re type it. But for brevities sake I referred to it in that way presuming that they’re fed. As in if the feds were to make a profile why wouldn’t they use a “thirst trap” as the PFP, and slap on a Soviet hat on to call it a day. Honeypot esque. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with referring to it that way. If I had a brad pit PFP and someone referred to it that way that would be fair. They’re profile just stuck out to me as “hello fellow kids” like.
Plus its frustrating that were getting hung up on one word I used, missing the forest for the trees. Only serves to derail the conversation.
However ill push back on me being “hyperdefensive”. Im trying to be as transparent as possible because I feel it would be worse to make this admittedly inflammatory post/comment but just leave it that. I’m just trying to air out my motivations so it doesn’t have presumed. I understand it makes me look worse and hyperdefensive but Id prefer that than the contrary.
And no I wasnt "misinterpreting their post as “everyone that uses the term goy is a reactionary”
In my other comment: “The phrasing of your low effort post is… poor. I think it would be better to have asked if using the term is reactionary in the first place. Instead of conflating it with reactionaries from the beginning.”
Idk… I really just want to see more principled discussions and was annoyed with the replies more so than the post itself. I prefer to lurk, reading more informed opinions than my own. I’ll go back to lurking after this lol.
I was disappointed to see confident yet lazy statements, and presumptuous personal attacks that im a sexist or reactionary and that’s its self evident thereby uskng thst to discredit anything else I said
Its not “drama” from the past I was trying to establish a track record of them holding ignorant opinions and behaving fed like. The first interaction I had I said:
“Bot detected. 25 day old account 8 karma, 400 contributions, pfp is some thirst trap with a poorly edited ussr (hat) on top. Or just dome freak (as opposed to a bot) regardless whyre you posting so much if you don’t know what you’re talking about.” In response to them saying
“They also use North Korean soldiers. I feel very sad for those poor souls despite them being technically on the enemy side, they are mostly clueless”
On shitliberalssay
Shouldn’t have called them a freak, idrk what I meant tho it was awhile ago. I guess It just gave weird parasocial gooner adolescent vibes cuz it was reddit after all. And with that PFP I called them a freak, as I think many people would, quite the contrary to me being an incel. It felt like they were incel like themselves. But I apologize for saying that based off assumptions I made.
If your profile pic was a pic of Brad Pitt in a soviet hat, I would assume you were a fan of Brad Pitt and the Soviets. I would not assume you were a well-kempt older man trying to appeal to me through a shared love of the Soviets, or a federal agent attempting to use that angle to ensnare me. I promise you, an idol edit pfp almost guarantees that the user is simply a young person who is into kpop. Probably a young woman. I find the conclusions you jumped to utterly bizarre and I hope you take the mod’s advice.
i was also asking a question because i wouldnt understand why neo nazis would call each other that. i didnt tone police anyone. i dont care what terms palestinians use, wtf, the post does not mention palestine at all…
I was speaking more broadley. I agree you weren’t tone policing, should’ve made that more clear. Your post was only only part of what prompted my post.
Throughout all this I have seen nothing that shows ill intent from opiumfree towards Lemmygrad, because all of this came across as a continuation of a reddit spat. I have no context, no links, and no receipts to follow on. Whatever opiumfree may have said on reddit is not something we noticed them saying on lemmygrad. I don’t even know what their reddit account would be to check for myself, so I’m once again asking myself what the whole point of this was to achieve – not that we need to go and check.
If we want Lemmygrad to be higher-quality than reddit then we should not bring reddit witch hunts over here. People are allowed to be newbies and ask questions and get things wrong without threads being made about them.
I echo a point that was pointed out to you @Cletus@lemmygrad.ml, about continually referring to opium’s profile picture as a “thirst trap”. It was requested that you reflect on why you would jump to calling a portrait of a woman wearing make-up a “thirst trap” or an “IG model” in lieu of a temp ban, so I’ll respect that request and leave moderation involvement at this comment response. People are allowed to have profile pictures that you don’t necessarily agree with, and there’s nothing sexual or out of line with this picture. Feds have also used profile pictures of Lenin and we wouldn’t call those thirst traps.
But I do see animosity from you towards opiumfree and I hope this will taper out and we won’t have to intervene again, because this is not conducive to a welcoming environment and eventually one of the two is going to leave and never come back. So let’s avoid that before it’s too late, no?
In the future:
I think from now on if someone has concerns about another user they should just prepare a summary and send it to an admin. We’ll relay it to the rest of the team and take it from there. Lemmy is lacking some tools to effectively moderate and manage an instance (imo) so this is the best I can offer. This goes for everyone. Usually just monitoring suspicious accounts will reveal wrecking tendencies.
As for people asking ‘newbie’ or ‘provocative’ questions: on the one hand, people are allowed to ask questions and be wrong. On the other, I agree that people should fill out the body text and explain their own understanding of the question so far. This is beneficial to their own learning, and for the others answering them. Collectively, we should promote an atmosphere of learning and progressing as a marxist, not just asking questions for the sake of seeing what others have to say about this or that random topic. People answering someone’s questions take time out of their day to do so, so the least one can do is to engage with the answers. This is beneficial to everyone.
If we want to be better than reddit then we have to decide if we’re going to be a welcoming space, or an elitist space… like reddit. I don’t have the final say myself, this is something the community should discuss, but what does it communicate to newcomers when there’s a thread on this or that user every other month calling them out for stuff nobody has context for? It’s not kiwifarms level but they’re also the only other forum I know that do this type of stuff against their own users. It’s basically causing stress and forcing someone to come in and defend themselves publicly.
I personally can’t remember any call out post lead to any productive conclusion on Lemmygrad. These ‘struggle sessions’ posts seem to just be a soapbox to air out dirty laundry and reinforce one’s own beliefs.
So:
- fill out your posts when making them
- if you have concerns about a user prepare a report to the admins and we’ll take it from there.
I will lock this thread soon if there’s no more discussion and consider it the end of that chapter.
Goy is some kind of symbol of Jewish supremacy, It’s usage reminds the violence of the Israelis toward Palestinians and (far less significantly) toward non jews,
Jewish supremacy does not represent jewishness i am not an antisemite I promise,
but among all supremacies today it is the deadliest and most violent one and introducing goy in our language helps pointing at it’s violence
