The fact that there are multiple seprate recovery options to regain access to your account and with it access to those encrypted backups is all the clue you need to know those keys are not stored only on your device.
Apple has access to those keys - whether they want to directly admit it or not.
“With Advanced Data Protection turned on, Apple doesn’t have the encryption keys needed to help you recover your end-to-end encrypted data.” it’s literally on the page. If they have them, prove it, and launch yourself the most profitable lawsuit against apple possible. Otherwise you’re just bring a grumpy fool.
Two things here. I’m not saying these are necessarily true, but they can be true.
-Apple could be lying.
-Apple could change their corporate policy on providing backdoor access for governments.
In the end, you are trusting a profit-seeking corporation to protect your data and conduct themselves in an ethical and honest way. They also had their phones built in factories where people threw themselves from the rooftop to escape the inhumane conditions. Just saying…
That could be true of literally any encryption you did not develop yourself and any os or hardware in the same lieu. Apple’s implementation is legally binding and third-party verified. That’s as good as you’re gonna get with any operating system you don’t entirely vet yourself, and no a third party linux distribution is not a os you manage yourself as governments local to the distrubuting party/management organization can require backdoors in even those.
In the end you are trusting other humans using their tools to do things you hope you understand but generally fully do not, so you must engage in a modicum of trust. This is just the great abstraction problem in any compute environment. Generally we base this on past or prior actions in combination with behaviors we can monitor or prove. Or should we talk about how pretty much every modern encryption scheme was minted by the NSA?.. Just saying… Right that doesn’t mean anything and I say that knowing I’ve got the loaded bullet of apple being the only corporate entity I’m familiar with to risk a public war with the US government by hosting this page despite gag orders while also refusing to implement said backdoors. https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
If you didn’t see that as a masterclass in running with a bad situation you clearly aren’t watching closely enough. I don’t agree with the actions, but a 25k gold turd dumped on the orange turds desk saved them millions in additional illegal tarrifs leveraged against Chinese imports, and their business actions have no impact on the technological underpinnings. That’s the whole point of what I said, that it doesn’t fucking matter who made it or what they’re doing at the end of the day because you’re trusting underlying encryption technology developed by the NSA (or did you forget Edward Snowden leaked they were spying on everyone?). Like /r/whoosh…
25k gold turd dumped on the orange turds desk saved them millions in additional illegal tarrifs leveraged against Chinese imports
Trump is a huge idiot, but he’s an even bigger gifter and conman. You think he let Apple off the hook for a little statue? Do you think the CEO of Apple flew out there just to give it to him personally to really show his appreciation? Trump doesn’t do anything without some quid pro quo, and there is no way he let Apple off the leash for such a paltry tithe.
Tim went there to let Trump know he would play ball.
You’re not wrong that they did a lot more than that. 1Mil for the ballroom, etc, etc. But given the illegal actions taken by the government there were no other options, and paying financial tithes does not compromise apple’s core mission which is valid critique you can leverage against them. I’m no apple stan. They’re not my savior, or even a “good” company imo… But you gotta pick your battles man and just making shit up ain’t gonna get you anywhere in any debate, unless apparently you’re the toddler n chief of the united states.
Did Tim not go there personally? Did he not bend the knee? Would you consider the small trophy an insufficient bribe for the amount of financial relief Apple got from the most successful conman grifter in history? It’s logical to assume there is a gap in what we saw, and what actually happened.
In the end, your device will never be truly open source hardware + software, whether its Apple or not, so you will have to trust someone at some point if you’d like to continue using electronic devices.
True, but you can use open source software that is vetted by multiple independent 3rd party non-profit organizations that have only their own reputation to uphold, and who’s findings are verified by thousands of independent reaearchers.
Perhaps, in the end, storing your data on media you don’t actually control shouldn’t be considered as locked in a safe, but instead stored in a museum with a high price of admission.
If only we had open source hardware to run that open source software on, then it could actually be trusted. Until you control the hardware, you shouldnt consider it safe.
If only there were multiple independent 3rd party non-profit organizations that have only their own reputation to uphold, and who’s findings are verified by thousands of independent reaearchers, to review hardware and check for backdoors.
They literally say to store your Recovery keys in a safe place or you could get locked out of your account.
If you don’t know your account password and have lost or otherwise don’t have a trusted device, you need your recovery key to regain access to your Apple Account. If you can’t provide your recovery key, you’ll be locked out of your account permanently.
Print a copy of your recovery key or write it down. Keep your key in a safe place, and consider storing a copy in more than one place. You can also give a copy of your recovery key to a trusted family member.
Don’t store your recovery key in your Apple Passwords app, iCloud Photos, Notes, or iCloud Drive. If you lose access to your Apple Account, you won’t be able to open these apps to find it.
There are no ways to recover your account if you have ADP on. Stop making stuff up. You need to have your key written down and stored somewhere safe, otherwise you are SOL and locked out forever.
It’s literally in the link in the comment this was replying to:
Recovery methods
With Advanced Data Protection turned on, Apple doesn’t have the encryption keys needed to help you recover your end-to-end encrypted data. [I do not believe this] If you ever lose access to your account, you’ll need to use one of your account recovery methods — your device passcode or password, your recovery contact, or recovery key — to recover your iCloud data.
Your device passcode or password is the passcode on your iPhone or iPad, or the login password on your Mac that you set to protect your device and enable two-factor authentication. It’s also used to reset your Apple Account password and to recover your end-to-end encrypted data if you lose access to your account.
A recovery contact is a trusted friend or family member who can use their Apple device to help you regain access to your account and data. They won’t have any access to your account, only the ability to give you a code to help you recover your account. Learn more about recovery contacts.
A recovery key is a secret 28-character code that you can use, along with a trusted phone number and an Apple device, to recover your account and data. Learn more about recovery keys.
How would a ‘trusted contact’ recover keys that are supposedly only stored on your devices, when you yourself have lost those devices; unless Apple has stored those keys elsewhere.
There’s also no telling what they’ve done with your ‘recovery key’. Just because they refuse to help you, doesn’t mean they have no access; they just won’t share that access with you, as it would blatantly expose their illusion.
There’s no way in hell I’m trusting a massive US corporation with securing my data without backdoor access. You have no way of managing encryption/recovery keys on an Apple device or seeing where/how they’ve been stored; you’ve just got to trust they handle it well for you.
I do not trust Apple; or any large profit driven corporation, particularly one that sucks up to the American government (especially THIS American Government). Not in todays age of dystopian surveillance.
How would a ‘trusted contact’ recover keys that are supposedly only stored on your devices, when you yourself have lost those devices; unless Apple has stored those keys elsewhere.
The same way E2EE works for anything else? You trust them as a device that can decrypt your keys using their own keys generated on their device. You need to do this at the time you turn on ADP. You cannot do it later.
There’s also no telling what they’ve done with your ‘recovery key’. Just because they refuse to help you, doesn’t mean they have no access; they just won’t share that access with you, as it would blatantly expose their illusion.
The key is randomly generated on your device locally and displayed to you exactly once. If you don’t write it down and store it somewhere else, you can never access it again. So, unless you have some actual data to show that the key is being transmitted anywhere, you’re just speculating without any evidence.
You don’t have to believe any of it. I don’t particularly care. But it’s wild to come out as confidently as you are when you don’t even know the basics about it.
The fact that there are multiple seprate recovery options to regain access to your account and with it access to those encrypted backups is all the clue you need to know those keys are not stored only on your device.
Apple has access to those keys - whether they want to directly admit it or not.
“With Advanced Data Protection turned on, Apple doesn’t have the encryption keys needed to help you recover your end-to-end encrypted data.” it’s literally on the page. If they have them, prove it, and launch yourself the most profitable lawsuit against apple possible. Otherwise you’re just bring a grumpy fool.
Two things here. I’m not saying these are necessarily true, but they can be true.
-Apple could be lying.
-Apple could change their corporate policy on providing backdoor access for governments.
In the end, you are trusting a profit-seeking corporation to protect your data and conduct themselves in an ethical and honest way. They also had their phones built in factories where people threw themselves from the rooftop to escape the inhumane conditions. Just saying…
That could be true of literally any encryption you did not develop yourself and any os or hardware in the same lieu. Apple’s implementation is legally binding and third-party verified. That’s as good as you’re gonna get with any operating system you don’t entirely vet yourself, and no a third party linux distribution is not a os you manage yourself as governments local to the distrubuting party/management organization can require backdoors in even those.
In the end you are trusting other humans using their tools to do things you hope you understand but generally fully do not, so you must engage in a modicum of trust. This is just the great abstraction problem in any compute environment. Generally we base this on past or prior actions in combination with behaviors we can monitor or prove. Or should we talk about how pretty much every modern encryption scheme was minted by the NSA?.. Just saying… Right that doesn’t mean anything and I say that knowing I’ve got the loaded bullet of apple being the only corporate entity I’m familiar with to risk a public war with the US government by hosting this page despite gag orders while also refusing to implement said backdoors. https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
Here is what I think of Apple’s decade old customer letter…
https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/10/23/apple-amongst-us-tech-giants-backing-trumps-white-house-ballroom-reno
https://www.axios.com/2025/01/03/tim-cook-apple-donate-1-million-trump-inauguration
Businesses “Standing up to Trump” was so 2016. 2025 was the year of “bend the knee, kiss the rings, work the shaft.”
If you didn’t see that as a masterclass in running with a bad situation you clearly aren’t watching closely enough. I don’t agree with the actions, but a 25k gold turd dumped on the orange turds desk saved them millions in additional illegal tarrifs leveraged against Chinese imports, and their business actions have no impact on the technological underpinnings. That’s the whole point of what I said, that it doesn’t fucking matter who made it or what they’re doing at the end of the day because you’re trusting underlying encryption technology developed by the NSA (or did you forget Edward Snowden leaked they were spying on everyone?). Like /r/whoosh…
Trump is a huge idiot, but he’s an even bigger gifter and conman. You think he let Apple off the hook for a little statue? Do you think the CEO of Apple flew out there just to give it to him personally to really show his appreciation? Trump doesn’t do anything without some quid pro quo, and there is no way he let Apple off the leash for such a paltry tithe.
Tim went there to let Trump know he would play ball.
You’re not wrong that they did a lot more than that. 1Mil for the ballroom, etc, etc. But given the illegal actions taken by the government there were no other options, and paying financial tithes does not compromise apple’s core mission which is valid critique you can leverage against them. I’m no apple stan. They’re not my savior, or even a “good” company imo… But you gotta pick your battles man and just making shit up ain’t gonna get you anywhere in any debate, unless apparently you’re the toddler n chief of the united states.
Did Tim not go there personally? Did he not bend the knee? Would you consider the small trophy an insufficient bribe for the amount of financial relief Apple got from the most successful conman grifter in history? It’s logical to assume there is a gap in what we saw, and what actually happened.
In the end, your device will never be truly open source hardware + software, whether its Apple or not, so you will have to trust someone at some point if you’d like to continue using electronic devices.
True, but you can use open source software that is vetted by multiple independent 3rd party non-profit organizations that have only their own reputation to uphold, and who’s findings are verified by thousands of independent reaearchers.
Perhaps, in the end, storing your data on media you don’t actually control shouldn’t be considered as locked in a safe, but instead stored in a museum with a high price of admission.
If only we had open source hardware to run that open source software on, then it could actually be trusted. Until you control the hardware, you shouldnt consider it safe.
If only there were multiple independent 3rd party non-profit organizations that have only their own reputation to uphold, and who’s findings are verified by thousands of independent reaearchers, to review hardware and check for backdoors.
Hey, if those multiple independent 3rd party non-profit orgs can do those audits for Apple, they can also do them for random hardware!
You seem to have lost your train of thought, despite it being a single caboose.
They literally say to store your Recovery keys in a safe place or you could get locked out of your account.
Set up a recovery key for your Apple Account
They do not.
There are no ways to recover your account if you have ADP on. Stop making stuff up. You need to have your key written down and stored somewhere safe, otherwise you are SOL and locked out forever.
It’s literally in the link in the comment this was replying to:
How would a ‘trusted contact’ recover keys that are supposedly only stored on your devices, when you yourself have lost those devices; unless Apple has stored those keys elsewhere.
There’s also no telling what they’ve done with your ‘recovery key’. Just because they refuse to help you, doesn’t mean they have no access; they just won’t share that access with you, as it would blatantly expose their illusion.
There’s no way in hell I’m trusting a massive US corporation with securing my data without backdoor access. You have no way of managing encryption/recovery keys on an Apple device or seeing where/how they’ve been stored; you’ve just got to trust they handle it well for you.
I do not trust Apple; or any large profit driven corporation, particularly one that sucks up to the American government (especially THIS American Government). Not in todays age of dystopian surveillance.
The same way E2EE works for anything else? You trust them as a device that can decrypt your keys using their own keys generated on their device. You need to do this at the time you turn on ADP. You cannot do it later.
The key is randomly generated on your device locally and displayed to you exactly once. If you don’t write it down and store it somewhere else, you can never access it again. So, unless you have some actual data to show that the key is being transmitted anywhere, you’re just speculating without any evidence.
You don’t have to believe any of it. I don’t particularly care. But it’s wild to come out as confidently as you are when you don’t even know the basics about it.
Ding ding ding!!!
The test of E2E encryption is “who manages the keys?” If the answer isn’t me, it isn’t E2E encrypted.
The user manages the keys per https://lemmy.world/comment/25340338