• 挂路灯人@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    18 hours ago

    I’ve seen a lot of pictures from the day both before and after the military intervention. I haven’t seen evidence characterising it as anything other than student-led protests, which of course were joined by other civilians. Do you have any?

    Cowbee has already provided a wealth of information I would recommend starting with the article by Sun Feiyang and Roderic Day and delving into the sources provided.

    BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it. This only drives away others who are open to e.g. opposition of NATO, but not willing to deny human rights abuses in support of that goal. Just seems hypocritical and like you don’t actually stand for any values instead of another flavor of tribalism and nationalism

    This is a completely nonsensical and ridiculous reply to me simply pointing out that the protest was more complex than simply a student protest and that the violence was not so one sided and cartoonish but rather the result of clashes between rioters with such peaceful calls as

    Don’t let any soldiers escape! Kill them all!

    and the peaceful thoughts of CIA operative and student leader Chai Ling:

    The students keep asking, “What should we do next? What can we accomplish?” I feel so sad, because how can I tell them that what we are actually hoping for is bloodshed

    Who when asked:

    Are you going to stay in the Square yourself?

    Replied:

    No, I won’t. Because my situation is different. My name is on the government’s hit list. I’m not going to let myself be destroyed by this government. I want to live

    and the soldiers acting in place of riot police.

    I am not at all against criticism of the handling of the events surrounding Tiananmen square in 1989 however that is not what you were doing rather you were merely obscuring the reality to allow yourself to apply easy blanket condemnation in place of real analysis and thought.

    • ztpq@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      3 hours ago

      I haven’t issued any blanket condemnations. Rather I said thanks for the info, I’ll look into it. Even though it seems a lot of folks here prefer to ridicule me for being less terminally online. Not that that says anything about the merit of the arguments at hand, but “you’re a moron if you don’t already agree with every single thing I believe” isn’t exactly good publicity. Not gonna respond to those comments for obvious reasons.

      • 挂路灯人@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 hours ago

        I find people are generally more polite when you don’t call them hypocritical blind tribalists and nationalists for not conforming to what you think they should believe based on what you’ve simply osmosised from the hegemonic liberal view on the matter and instead stick to polite questions and requests for clarification until you’re more informed.