That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won’t do shit.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea
Did you mean say “foreign entity” or “China”. Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.
But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
It’s a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
I haven’t heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.
… have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
Look if you say “I’m not involved, it’s not my problem” that’s fair enough. But to say there’s no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
This is exactly the point. Both are bad, but one plays by no rules whatsoever, while the other at least pays lip service to them.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn’t like the CIA movies, mate.
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so…
You would be wrong about most of this.
I don’t think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.
Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US.
I have actually but I don’t see why that’s relevant. You really think people gain knowledge once they step off the airplane into the USA?
. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world.
It sounds like you are not very aware of what’s been happening.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
You are doing that now though.
The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
Why? Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP? If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
Depends on the topic. I trust NZ government more than the CCP in most things but I fear the NZ government more than I fear the CCP because the NZ government exercises more power over me than the CCP does.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
Why?
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP?
Yes.
If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
As bad as they are they can not exert any power over me. OTOH both the NZ government and the US government can exert tremendous amount of power over me.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
The US government is pretty corrupt. But it is absolutely nothing like the CCP. Does the US government disappear political opponents? Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful. Does it fund infrastructure projects to debt riddled countries so that they have no choice but to sell them all their mineral wealth? Does the US government actively genocide ethnic minorities? Seriously, they are both bad, but the CCP is much worse.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
What?
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
🙄
This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
The US has no control over you, unless you are a citizen there. What are you afraid of?
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
You keep moving the goalpost. CCP is bad, not as bad as the USA, not as bad Saudi Arabia, not as bad as South Korea, not as bad as Israel.
The US government is pretty corrupt.
LOL. “pretty corrupt”.
Does the US government disappear political opponents?
It kills them with drone strikes. Also tortures them.
Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful.
Absolutely, but those are parts which are subject to overseas QA, standards and testing. For example, I have a Toyota. Chinese made parts must meet their strict quality control, must adhere to safety standards, etc.
I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.
We are talking about a country that has things like Melamine laced baby formula quite frequently. How did these things pass regulators and testing? Bribary.
I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.
The cars that are exported here must meet our standards.
I never said anyone else had to listen to me. I said, originally, that I wouldn’t drive a Chinese company.
And I want to be very clear here. I don’t hate China. I greatly distrust the Chinese government, and the culture of bribary, lying, cheating and scamming that has gone along with it.
I also do not hate it because it’s popular to do so online. I have this view because of direct, personal, experience with Chinese companies and the government there.
Simply put, Chinese companies have and will make important stuff out of sub-par materials to make a buck, and lie, cheat and bribe their way to market. And then people die. This is not paranoia, this is something that happens all the time there.
I just cannot bring myself to trust my life to a Chinese car.
I have done business there. I know what it’s like. It does not fill me with confidence.
Also it’s one thing to be spied on by ad companies (which is bad enough) but quite another to be spied on by an adversarial dictatorship.
Exactly. Same reason I won’t use Chinese brand phones.
That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won’t do shit.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
Did you mean say “foreign entity” or “China”. Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.
It’s a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
I haven’t heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
Look if you say “I’m not involved, it’s not my problem” that’s fair enough. But to say there’s no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.
This is exactly the point. Both are bad, but one plays by no rules whatsoever, while the other at least pays lip service to them.
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn’t like the CIA movies, mate.
Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so…
I don’t think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.
All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.
I have actually but I don’t see why that’s relevant. You really think people gain knowledge once they step off the airplane into the USA?
It sounds like you are not very aware of what’s been happening.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
You are doing that now though.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
Why? Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP? If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
Depends on the topic. I trust NZ government more than the CCP in most things but I fear the NZ government more than I fear the CCP because the NZ government exercises more power over me than the CCP does.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
Yes.
As bad as they are they can not exert any power over me. OTOH both the NZ government and the US government can exert tremendous amount of power over me.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
The US government is pretty corrupt. But it is absolutely nothing like the CCP. Does the US government disappear political opponents? Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful. Does it fund infrastructure projects to debt riddled countries so that they have no choice but to sell them all their mineral wealth? Does the US government actively genocide ethnic minorities? Seriously, they are both bad, but the CCP is much worse.
What?
🙄
The US has no control over you, unless you are a citizen there. What are you afraid of?
You keep moving the goalpost. CCP is bad, not as bad as the USA, not as bad Saudi Arabia, not as bad as South Korea, not as bad as Israel.
LOL. “pretty corrupt”.
It kills them with drone strikes. Also tortures them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
Yes, by helping Israel and Saudi Arabia and Yemen do it.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dotcom-wins-settlement-from-police-over-the-2012-dawn-raid-which-saw-him-arrested/2EGYXEM64SKGMYHJPZ23QNIRO4/
You probably trust your life to chinese made parts in your current car.
Absolutely, but those are parts which are subject to overseas QA, standards and testing. For example, I have a Toyota. Chinese made parts must meet their strict quality control, must adhere to safety standards, etc.
I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.
We are talking about a country that has things like Melamine laced baby formula quite frequently. How did these things pass regulators and testing? Bribary.
The cars that are exported here must meet our standards.
That’s fine if you’re happy to drive one, I don’t really care. Personally I won’t.
They can say they meet regulations all they won’t, but the number of times corners are cut in China to make a few extra bucks makes me look elsewhere.
This is all not to mention not wanting to support the CCP in any way, and the CCP has fingers in all the large companies in China.
You do you boo. It seems like the rest of the country doesn’t agree with you too much.
But hey you hate China and I guess that’s one badge you can wear with honor.
I never said anyone else had to listen to me. I said, originally, that I wouldn’t drive a Chinese company.
And I want to be very clear here. I don’t hate China. I greatly distrust the Chinese government, and the culture of bribary, lying, cheating and scamming that has gone along with it. I also do not hate it because it’s popular to do so online. I have this view because of direct, personal, experience with Chinese companies and the government there.
Simply put, Chinese companies have and will make important stuff out of sub-par materials to make a buck, and lie, cheat and bribe their way to market. And then people die. This is not paranoia, this is something that happens all the time there.
So you don’t hate china but you hate the chinese government and everybody in china who works for any company that makes any product.
That’s not at all what I said.