- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
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Basic image analysis like this should have been done ages ago, but libs don’t care about the truth just blind propagandizing
I was honestly so surprised myself when I realized that the supposed most famous picture of the massacre didn’t show a single dead body. Just makes you think about how easily can falsehood be used for propaganda.
One of the first casualties of the whole protest was an unarmed PLA officer that was tied to a bus by the protestors and burnt alive. Then mocked and photographed. They never share that photo around though.
Westerners refuse to believe that about half the fatalities were PLA members because in their countries, the police would never be unarmed, never abandon their equipment, never hesitate to kill in retaliation.
Westerners also don’t pity the murdered PLA officers because they view them the same as their own police: violent people that eagerly abuse their power.
I think that’s the most eye-opening thing about this “massacre”
if this had happened in the US, the streets would have run with rivers of blood. It would’ve been utterly brutal. And the US would be the one rewriting history to try and pretend it never happened. It’s always projection.
Yeah so much western propaganda is essentially just accusing this or that country of being like the USA. I genuinely don’t understand why it’s so effective
Because the other half of the propaganda is convincing people that the USA isn’t like the USA. No idea how that one works so well either thought.
The same reason why slave-ocrats said that enslaved people liked to be enslaved, but were in constant fear of revolts. They live in fear of being treated like they’ve treated others.
Imagine if BLM protestors had tied an unarmed, out of uniform, cop to a bus and burnt them alive what the libs would be screaming for. They would want outright slaughter.
Word. Kent state? Armed National Guard goons in full battle rattle with bayonets fixed fired 7.62mm rifles point blank in to students. Tianemen? The majority of the PLA soldiers in the square didn’t have any weapons of any kind what so ever. They didn’t have batons. They didn’t have helmets. They were just wearing their uniforms and basically standing there. It was a show of force, certainly, but unlike anything I can think of in Western political history.
During the New York Draft Riots, the New York Times machine gunned protestors.
In authoritarian America, citizens aren’t taught the history of the New York Draft Riots and anyone who googles 紐約徵兵暴動 gets disappeared by their secret police! 😱😱
I asked an American about the New York Draft Riots once, and he gave me a clearly uncomfortable look. That said it all.
Not true, they do … And they claim that it’s another instance of SeePeePee violence …
Let me see if I can find the libbed up reddit thread where I saw it:
Not as upvoted as I remember, the post is a Midjourney selfie from tank man.
I didn’t know there was a video of tank man until like two years ago. It was always shown as an image with the implication he was then killed
i distinctly remember being ‘informed’ that “right after this photo, he was disappeared by the secret police and never seen or heard from again!”
Yea that was the version I was “taught”, that no one knows who is is or what happened to him and obviously that means the communist party disappeared him
I remember being sat in my classroom as a primary school kid with my teacher showing us that photo on the newspaper days after the event and him telling us to think about what happened to that poor brave man.
what happened to that poor brave man.
He probably went home to clean up, and later hooked up with some PLA Chad for a romantic dinner. When he climbed on the tank for a chat he was actually exchanging numbers.
My theory, based on the fact that he had a shopping bag, was that the dude in the tank was his son:
“Hey, didn’t I tell you grandma and grandpa are coming over tonight?”
“Uh, yeah dad, could we talk about this later?”
“No. And do you remember how I specifically asked you to pick up some lettuce and tomatoes on the way to work?”
“Uh, dad, we’re kind of holding up traffic here… WHAT THE HELL, DAD PLEASE GET OFF THE TANK, PLEASE, YOU’RE EMBARASSING ME”
Tank Man was later given a medal for Most Epic Dad Moment
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I believe there’s actually video footage of tank man climbing up on the tank, conversing with the tank commander, and then getting down and walking away.
I’m told that many people were lying prone because there was machine gun fire from the battle between the PLA and the insurgents several blocks away.
the Tiananmen Square Bicycle Massacre
You don’t get it! Deng flattened all the people with his fat cheeks, then inflated everyone back up, then cleaned up the blood and viscera but not the bodies!
You joke but there is a BBC article that literally claims that someone saw dead bodies of the protestors beinng churned and sent down the gutter or something like that.
I remember that and it was that they ran tanks over hundreds of bodies for hours turning the remains into pulp so they could wash them down the gutters. It was years ago before I knew better and actually believed that shit. Imagine thinking that they were able to sneak out all these other photos but not any of the events they SAY happened? lol.
Yes, it was the British Ambassador IIRC and the Australian prime minister caused a minor drama by reading out the cable like the next day.
Incidentally that Australian Labor Prime Minister was informing to the US for decades prior and led the US-proposed agreement between unions, corporates and the government which ended up collapsing the union movement and bringing in a wave of austerity a decade later.
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That’s dope. The one thing I always find frustrating when bickering over politics is people not even caring to read or learn more. I have a lot more respect for my friends when they do, even if all it does is give more nuance to their takes.
Hell if I never decided to read more shit I’d still be a right winger with the rest of the nutcase family.
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We can be critical of past and existing socialist projects, but we can’t ultimately forget that they must be supported and given grace in the face of the primary contradiction that is Global North imperialism. As long as our societies are influenced by class relations, states are going to exist for the foreseeable future. To think a socialist state shuld be abolished immediately in the context of being surrounded by imperialist predators is an irrational expectation…
Because of this, we are skeptical of the messaging coming from imperialist states. We support the countries that are attempting to progress humanity past capitalism, which is destroying us. For those of us in the imperial core, we understand that any criticisms we have of other socialist revolutions can’t ultimately be trusted. Those criticisms – whatever they may be – have zero relevance to the nations that are battling for survival in spite of the empire we live in.
We should cautiously inspect the propaganda we consume from all states, socialist or not. But we omly continue to amass reasons to be downright cynical of anything coming out of Western governments.
Agreed! Criticism of the 20th century, both it’s failures and it’s successes, is vital to moving forward! We can’t treat our past comrades as saints, nor ignore them, and they wouldn’t want us to! Imagine knowing that those who came after you refused to learn from the mistakes you made! I can’t imagine anything more horrible for someone who devoted their life to a scientific understanding of economy than people refusing to learn from observation.
I’ll read but am doubtful something will be able to convince me to trust in government or someone with power.
I know you said you’re bowing out in another comment but I just want to say that states are bad, all states. States do bad things in pursuit of maintaining themselves. This is true of the capitalist state. This is true of the socialist state. What matters here is who they do their bad shit in service of, what class are they serving, the proletariat or the bourgeoisie.
We are communists. We want a stateless society. We want this because we know states are bad.
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I would strongly suggest reading State and Revolution to understand the reasoning on the function of the DotP. It is fundamentally oriented towards the tendencies of power and people following self-interested motivations in aggregate over time. No one is talking about “giving up” anything. The proletariat is to oppress the bourgeoisie by means of more genuinely democratic governance (that obstructs the power of capital that is exerted in liberal democracies) and erode the bourgeois class over time until it no longer exists. No power is surrendered at any point in that process, but the people who need to be oppressed are decided on class lines that cease to exist by the very same process as the class is oppressed.
You can find both text and audiobook versions online pretty easily, and hopefully the most famous work of the founder of the first Marxist state is not on the same level as QAnon manifestos to you.
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Why?
~let me put this here real quick~
Thread I wrote about Tiananmen: https://twitter.com/prolewiki/status/1666492127730098208 (Thread reader link due to Musk fuckery on twitter)
CIA-funded leader Chai Ling crying crocodile tears hoping students will be shot while she herself deadpan says she’ll be out of the country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5__ESiklA1A. She was later extradited by the CIA during Operation Yellowbird and now lives in the USA.
I always enjoy re-watching the full “Tank Man” video, with the “brutal Chinese tanks” awkwardly trying to bypass the protestor and patiently waiting him out. I think libs just see that single frame and fill the gaps with their own experiences in their countries in thinking that the guy got ran over or something. If you try that with a secret service car they might do just that.
If you try that with a secret service car they might do just that.
There’s videos of NYPD just plowing BLM protesters. Amerikkkans think other places are as awful as theirs is.
I think it’s something Statesians get taught in schools. In Europe we’d always heard he stopped the tanks and then went on his way but “was never seen again”, not that the tanks rolled him over or anything.
Yeah, that was one of the more fucked up sections of the video I posted, is her crying into a camera. The way she starts crying because the students kept trying to have a peaceful resolution with the government instead of getting themselves massacred… Their entire goal was go try and get as many of their fellow students killed as possible to have as propaganda footage. Like who watches that and then sympathizes with her? Who sees someone crying, because the people under her were trying to be reasonable and not provoke a needless massacre, and thinks “Oh that poor girl. Having to deal with these people that don’t want to get killed for the CIA.” ?"
I mean,
Anti communists are weird, perverse freaks and many of them would happily murder the entire human population if they thought it would keep people from helping each other and making the world better.
The only reason whitey even gives a shit about these dead chinese people is that they hate china so much. After all, half of them are still secretly jerking themselves off at the thought of millions of chinese farmers dying due to the Three Gorges Dam going broke.
Muricans; TIANAMEN SEESEEPEE 10,000 dead tank jelly gutters!
Also Muricans: What do you mean Indonesia slaughtered half a million innocent people with the knowledge and support of the US government? What do you means the US and Saudi conspired to kill hundreds of thousands of Yemenis in a campaign of naked and uncomplicated genocide? What do you mean the South Korean forces murdered tens of thousands of innocent people using a pretense of communism? That’s all bullshit I would have heard about that and anyway they weren’t white so I don’t care.
Same can be applied to Xinjiang propaganda. “Oh, the State Department now cares about Muslim lives?”
The US led war on terror killed more Muslims than exist in Xinjiang
liberals reading
That’s funny.
It was not fabricated, it was exaggerated. Clashes occurred around Beijing and bloodshed was real. Most of them were Maoists clashing with pro market reform government.
Nobody is denying bloodshed. There absolutely were violent protests outside the square. The claim in question is that the military gunned down thousands of peaceful protesters in the square, which so far as I know is a claim that’s exclusively made by people who were not there.
Even that is giving too much credit to the US government narrative.
There literally are all the US mainstream news outlets like CBS News who actually had reporters there at the time: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/
Also from classified US communications with assets on the ground: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/89BEIJING18828_a.html
Funniest thing is that “tank man” photo idiots spam on Reddit all the time. Most people in the west don’t realize there is video of it, that the guy didn’t get run over. Furthermore they assume he was blocking tanks heading towards the square, infact those tanks were at the time headed away from the square to avoid engaging with armed agitators (people with guns and grenades that had killed police) in a crowded environment. Dude was trying to make them go back.
The deaths that day were people who got gunned down by the “protestors” or the police who were killed when the “protestors” threw grenades (military ordnance) into police vehicles. People that were armed by the CIA as part of a color revolution operation, one that failed because it didn’t actually have any support and more importantly because the PLA commander on the scene ordered his units to leave the area rather than responding in kind. The only actual protestors that day were communists having labor protests happening nearby and not the dancing libertine youth acting as the face of the US color revolution operation involving armed groups trying unsuccessfully to provoke the PLA soliders into responding to deadly attacks with deadly force in a crowded urban environment.
My personal opinion on the matter isn’t that much different from yours (the biggest reason being that the media blitz about the massacre seemed preplanned… It just didn’t go according to plan). The problem is that I can’t prove anything, so it’s all conjecture. So I typically leave that out. It’s already a sensitive enough subject.
On balance, it would be fair to say that while thousands of protestors were most likely not gunned down in the square itself, hundreds were being gunned down around it. So there was a massacre by the PLA, it just didn’t happen in the square itself.
So there was a massacre by the PLA, it just didn’t happen in the square itself.
Current research by the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation suggests that the massacre occured in the same place Sadaam Hussein would later store his nonexistant WMDs.
Libs will probably lose their minds if they can’t make jokes about Tiananmen Square.
I’m probably replying to some anti-lib community, but it’s really weird coming from “/c/all” that nearly every comment has some sort of jab at “libs” for a topic that I would never associate with a political spectrum.
Fyi I’m not affiliated with any political “side” and I’m not American, so it just seems weird to be.
We are an a communist instance. American liberals (which includes both of their major political parties) are very imperialist and love to push propaganda about their enemies. It’s why public opinion for China took a nose dive in the last 10 years. Why Iran is so evil, but nobody thinks about Kuwait. Why Tiananmen square gets so much attention but the white terror receives none. China’s the enemy, and “Taiwan” is an innocent friend that needs protecting.
Being communist, we are anti-imperialist, and hate the war mongering propaganda that the liberals seem to lap up. They see this as being conspiracy theorists or contrarian. Hence the conflict about things like this.
Okay, I understand the narative, and agree that western culture has cemented certain opinions on history. But where does the liberal part come in? Maybe I’m misunderstanding that bit. On US social media there is this whole lib vs republican thing going on. In this case does lib just mean “not communism”?
In this case does lib just mean “not communism”?
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. Thus “liberal” is everyone who support capitalism, that is basically starting at socialdemocracy and everything right of them - which in western countries mean literally entire political mainstream.
I like that we have/need new books to re-report information that was widely known decades ago because of how easy it is to sell propaganda to the west. We have actual documentaries, made by the west at the time of Tiananmen, that completely contradicts the massacre narrative that was invented years later. lol. Libs really will believe anything as long as it comes from the mouth of some oligarch backed talking head.
Have you seen that chart that tracks how Americans went from credditing the USSR for making the greatest sacrifice in WWII and contributing the most to victory in 1946, to completely removing the Soviet contribution from the picture by the 80s? It’s really sad. The Red Army deserves better.
The key reason this kind of lazy propaganda works is because people want to believe it. It leverages the latent racism and capitalist realism people have internalized living in decaying western societies. The idea that a country that doesn’t follow liberal ideology could be more successful is a complete anathema to these people.
Indeed. “The west is the best” is the prevailing thought in the zeitgeist of the west. So as bad as things can be in the west, at least they are still “the best.” But if other nations actually practice “freedom and liberty” better than they do, despite not screaming about how “free” they are all the time, it calls the whole western narrative into question. And causes a lot of cognitive dissonance. And people in the west are not given the tools they need to deal with that, so they just lash out and get angry, or find an easy excuse to ignore it.
Most reliable genzedong news source. When you google A B Abrams, supposed writer of the book in question there is zero information about him other than the very questionable books he has written from very biased news sources. And there aren’t many.
Let me ask you this, what does A B in A B Abrams stand for? Nothing because they aren’t a real person.
When you google A B Abrams, one of the top results is from the “daily nk” i.e. the daily North Korea. Where we are told that the author has published under multiple pseudonyms, none of which we are told. They supposedly have multiple Masters degrees in “related fields” from the university of London. Which by the way, is not a single university but a group of different universities throughout London, so that’s even more vague. And then finally, we are told that “A B Abrams” studied korean at the university of Pyongyang. And has many contacts with people inside of North Korea.
To me, this screams propaganda, likely originating from North Korea or potentially even China, in order to make the west look bad. And you can make the west look bad without lying about the Tiananmen Square Massacre’s existence.
To deny the events that unfolded at Tiananmen Square is like denying that humans have been to the moon. It’s an unfounded, in fact, disprovable conspiracy theory.
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
The Daily NK is a South Korean newspaper that also happens to be funded by the US through the National Endowment for Democracy. It would be funny if the US were funding a North Korean propaganda outfit but somehow I don’t think that’s what’s happening.
It would be funny if the US were funding a North Korean propaganda outfit but somehow I don’t think that’s what’s happening.
Hey, maybe while we were out posting, the reincarnated Huey Newton and William Z. Foster took over the US government and established a Marxist-Leninist state. After all, nobody can right at this instant prove it didn’t happen…
To deny the events that unfolded at Tiananmen Square is like denying that humans have been to the moon. It’s an unfounded, in fact, disprovable conspiracy theory.
So prove it to us then. All you’re doing right now is scolding us for being insane conspiracy theorists. I’ve never seen any evidence that anything happened at tiananmen square. Reports from people who were actually there all say that there was no massacre
The US has a very long history of lying about its enemies. There are plenty of declassified CIA docs that talk about what lies to tell the media. Why is this one different?
Edit: also, see pen names. Isn’t it a little hypocritical to call us conspiracy theorists when you come to the conclusion that the book was lies written by China or North Korea because you can’t find any information about the author?
Isn’t it a little hypocritical to call us conspiracy theorists
Radlibs and seeing irony are the bitterest of foes.
I can’t prove it to you, I just use my skills at googling “A B Abrams” to conclude that this is untrustworthy. I also can’t prove that the moon landing happened or that matter is made of atoms, doesn’t mean they are false.
To add to WhatWouldKarlDo’s posts, which provided credible counter-evidence (A CBS reporter on location, and a Latin American diplomat’s leaked eyewitness account), I want to further emphasise that using a search engine to assess credibility and provide ethos isn’t a strong argument. If I search your username, and if you search mine, neither of us will show up as a real person and both our histories will show we reply to political topics. Should we therefore conclude we’re both just writing propaganda, and further assume that makes it false?
We’re writing opinions or analyses, and hopefully, substantiating them with evidence. And surely the book is doing the same.
I just use my skills at googling
lmao okay
See my edit. But here’s the thing. We have video of the moon landing and rocks from the actual moon. That’s solid evidence. We have plenty of evidence of the atom existing, because half our tech wouldn’t work if they didn’t exist.
Where is the evidence of a massacre at tiananmen square? Please read the links I gave you.
Edit: please remember, you said that this was an easily disprovable conspiracy theory.
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship
Open report 590, it’s the first item of the day. I hope you didn’t expect they would talk about it in English.
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
Because the purpose of the firewall is to keep the West out.
This is like asking why people who call the Civil War the “War of Northern Aggression” are censored/ignored. It’s historically inaccurate and you deserve to be the subject of animus and suspicion if you do so.
Because the purpose of the firewall is to keep the West out.
This is a common misconception. The real purpose of the Great Firewall is to keep China’s posters in. The CPC is doing the world a great kindness. I’ve seen the magnitude of posting that happens in China. We could not survive posting of that magnitude.
from what I’ve heard, they don’t even block discussion of it in China, it’s just called the “June 4th incident” 😑
That’s the most hilarious part. It isn’t censored in China at all. They just call it a different name and gullible westerners assume that the blank looks Chinese people give them when they froth at the mouth about “The tinyman square massacre” is proof that THE TRUTH is censored in China.
“June 4th incident” or “counter-revolutionary riot/rebellion” is part of a larger topic called “1989 Political Disturbance/Turmoil”, those who are interested can try searching with these terms.
BTW, in China “Tiananmen incident” refers to the 1976 incident, both incidents began from the mournings of Chinese leaders (Zhou Enlai in 1976 and Hu Yaobang in 1989).
Not censored. It’s openly discussed in the literature. Unsurprisingly, they don’t let you spread unsubstantiated claims about massacres, though.
If, as I’ve seen many a white “journalist” do, you go up to a random chinese person on the streets and ask “Hey do you know about the thousands of people that were massacred?” they would, very understandably, think you were deranged.
Yeah, they don’t let people spread lies about it, but it’s part of their history
I don’t know what this means
Use your grade A googling skills to figure it out.
It means shut up lib, less debate more study
Why don’t you read the book, investigate the citations and claims, and report back on whether the text is fabricated?
Whether or not the writer has a connection to China or the DPRK doesn’t actually impact the soundness of any claim. If anything, you are taking an extreme position about academic authority that isn’t reflective of reality. You should use your critical thinking skills to assess the claims in the book instead of attacking the author because they might be a Korean or Chinese national. It is kinda racist to assume someone from China or Pyongyang are unable to write on these topics without it being “propaganda”
Don’t you know? If a source comes for CHYNA or NORF COURIER it is automatically fake and lies. Automatically. If Xi Jinping said the moon is real, it would instantly pop out of existence.
Exactly how many times has the US lied to us? You expect me to to belive the country that said Iraq had WMD when they say anything? When they brag about lying all the time?
Ok, I know they were lying about the WMDs, and the Nayirah testimony, and the gulf of Tonkin, and the sinking of the USS Maine, and about Cuba, the USSR and all of their enemies throughout history, but they’re telling the truth this time!
This just in: Author known for writing books.
in order to make the west look bad. And you can make the west look bad without lying about the Tiananmen Square Massacre’s existence.
Then why would these sources be lying?
NKnews and Daily NK are anti-DPRK news outlets funded by the U.S. Be pretty funny if even y’all’s most orientalist propaganda outlet turned out to be Norf Kowean (OR EVEN CHINESE!!!) Pwopaganda!
If you wanna read an informative text on this topic that is sourced you can refer to: https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/
It is long but crucially contains the background of the protests which most people are unaware of.
100% more reliable as a source than Adrian Zenz and yet Im sure you believe all the Uigher genocide bullshit that almost always circles back to him or literally U.S. mouthpieces like Radio Free Asia
I don’t believe that “A B Abrams” is a reliable source, I don’t know anything about these other things you say. But when I googled A B Abrams, I only found a small selection of very suspect websites. And for that reason, I do not trust this article or this book
k
you verify a suspect source by analyzing their material and checking their sources for accuracy. just discounting a source because you can’t find info about them is itself unsound reasoning.
“Suspect” based on what exactly? Your preconceived notions of what “good” journalism and places are? Based on your education by Western states with vested interests in portraying their enemies as evil as possible?
How do you feel about COVID vaccines?
He isn’t the source, he is the author. As far as I have read he is not claiming firsthand knowledge of the events from the incident. It honestly shouldn’t matter to you if it was written by Mao himself, if there are directly verifiable sources being presented.
The reliable sources are the accounts he cites, like the diplomats who provided first hand accounts of events there.
If you are actually interested in learning about the event and you are skeptical if this book, then you should look at Qiao Collective’s reading list: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist
if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
They don’t. People in China know that the protests in 89 happened, they just don’t think it’s a big deal. The idea that it’s this huge dangerous taboo is just western
brainworms Dude. These people are insane and not worth your time. Just block the sub like I’m about to do and never look back. They can find comfort in their eco chamber
“People who disagree with me are mentally ill and worthless. I, for one, prefer to create my own comfortable eco chamber, never look back, and then accuse them of living in an eco chamber.”
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Nah, you’re in the echo believing western propaganda that you’re too stupid to recognize. You probably believe in weeger genocide. Ethnic minorities, including uighurs were excluded from the one child policy. If China wanted to do genocide, why would they be exempt from draconian population control that was already in place?
Just block the sub
They can find comfort in their ec[h]o chamber
Wow, straight-up propaganda. Seek the Truth, people. That event has been covered by multiple reputable journalists, from all around the world…
CBS news had a reporter in the square at the time. You should read what he said
But there’s no question many people were killed by the army that night around Tiananmen Square.
The link 404s lol. No archives either from what I can find.
I’ve read it (or something like it) in the past. There were violent confrontations around the city after the protest was dispersed. A couple hundred people (a significant number of them soldiers), died in the fighting. This matches with what the CPC said, so I don’t think it’s in dispute.
Vast majority of the links in similar articles are circular or to “original reporting” from people who weren’t there or reporting based on US government sources. But like the other commenter said, it’s absolutely true and agreed by the PRC that hundreds died in fighting around the city. No lies there are all, but the lead up to it makes clear that the forces which resulted in fighting at all were liberal and imperialist-aligned forces. https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/
This is what tankies actually believe
Tankies, historians, the CIA
The Chinese government suckering you to do your PR work for them, them too
Do you on principle recoil from all evidence when the truth is convenient to someone you hate? Is it the same to believe the truth and to be ‘doing PR work’ for them?
Lol tankie says what?
Khrushchev was right to put down the rebellion in Hungary. It would have been proof to the West they could chop away the USSR with color revolutions and it prevented a second holocaust in Eastern Europe.
The one objectively correct thing Khrushchev did
They don’t know anything that you’re talking about
When a baby accidentally says a real word it’s good for their development to respond
Dipshits: Uhhh actualkly tankies are bad because the USSR should have just let the fascists who had all been soldiers for the Reich ten years prior and had murdered a half a million Jewish Hungarians as well as god knows how many others re-take power and re-install the Arrow Cross party!
most literate anticommunist
- those damn tankies at checks notes… cbs news?
CBS news was well known for it’s cowardly support for the Politburo’s decision to send tanks in to Hungary to crush the fascist revolt and prevent the genocidal arrow cross party from returning to power only ten years after WWII, the holocaust, and the Nazi murder of, like, what, almost 30 million people?
It’s true we do!
Facts and logic don’t care about your ideology!
If by tankies you mean people who have any historical literacy at all then yeah.
Shouldn’t even take a book to come to that conclusion, honestly. Frankly, I doubt anyone who is entrenteched in the propaganda around the event would change their mind no matter how much evidence you show them. For them, China is bad, so everything else must follow from that.
Even western media, at the time of the event, said that basically nothing happened in the square. It wasn’t until they realised that didn’t line up with the US position that they changed their line, but you can find old articles (including first hand accounts from diplomats in the area) that say there wasn’t much.
I don’t think anyone denies that some violence occured in the city as a whole, though it was very often levied the opposite way of popular portrayal. Especially because a lot of the PLA that were initially deployed were not even armed.
what the fuck is this shite, tiananmen happened you fucking cunts cry me a river
you fucking removed
Coming in screaming slurs to own the tankies
oh yes, china, the renowned ethnostate leads the way on civil discourse.
“Ethnostate”. Good lord, liberals really don’t know that words mean things.
Have you ever tried… Reading anything? Other than comment sections I mean.
Even western sources agree with us. The only place that continues to spread the mythological bullshit narrative that was first dreamt up about it is reddit. Everyone else, even the western press, has accepted that the Chinese narrative is more accurate.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/
The Chinese Red Cross had given a figure of 2,600 deaths. shut the fuck up??? if no massacre took place why cant chinese people discuss it?
if no massacre took place why cant chinese people discuss it?
they can, they do quite often lmao
that’s another thing you got from reddit
thats a lie, everything they can censor is censored, sure you could get away with saying it in a field in the middle of nowhere but you can get away with sayinf anythung like that https://www.nbcnews.com/video/what-happens-when-you-google-tiananmen-square-in-china-273675331595
well…tiananmen happened, the thing that didn’t happen was the massacre
sure and xi jinping can fly with his arms
Do you have a source for that?
Anti-Communists: “communists are all brainwashed to ignore evidence!”
Anti communists when faced with the evidence:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Mothers
please contact the families of the dead yourself you heartless fuck
So you’re not going to answer my question?
'Anti-Communists: “communists are all brainwashed to ignore evidence!”
Anti communists when faced with the evidence:’
whats the question?
Replied to the wrong comment, what I meant to say to you is
want me to pull up the mass starvation records under mao or are yiu going to claim thats fake too, youre no better than a holocaust denier. fuck off
The average lifespan of the Chinese at the start of the revolution was 33 years of age, that’s how horrible things were under the British, Americans and other western imperialists exploiting the country. It went up DURING the revolution, a time of civil war between the communists and the ROC combined with a literally genocidal fascist invasion by the Japanese.
Conditions were so bad that the communists still made people’s lives better during those horrendous circumstances. By the time the new country was founded it had risen to 45 years, and by the time Mao died in 1976 it had risen to 62 years of age.
Were things just peachy during this time? No. Did they consistently improve the lives of the people? Yes. Were things significantly worse beforehand? 100%.
The maoist uprising against the landlords was the largest and most comprehensive proletarian revolution in history, and led to almost totally-equal redistribution of land among the peasantry.
global lifespans around the world have gone up, this isnt a totally fair argument. as they say, high tides lift all boats. british colonialists are notoriously evil, i wont defend them. i will have to look into uour comment more, thanks for the info. but on zedong, he was a cutthroat dictator and is succeeded by another and another and (etc. etc.), we’re still seeing genocides today with the ugyhurs for example in tibet and forceful annexations with hong kong, tibet, taiwan (soon?), large sea expanses, etc… china’s economic success does not excuse ethnofascism
Can you tell me what the life expectancy is in capitalist Nigeria please? Which France is attempting to get to invade Niger to stop them from becoming free of colonialism.
Capitalism has yet to improve the lives of people. It functions to maintain itself and provide wealth extraction from the labour of the working class, in the global south it functions to export that wealth into the imperialist western nations which act as an empire bloc.
he was a cutthroat dictator
Nah man. You don’t really know this, you’ve just heard it repeated by hundreds and hundreds of reddit comments over and over again without actually investigating it properly from proper sources instead of propaganda. You also probably come from a country that has a deeply anticommunist problem. Here in the UK viewing Mao as having done more good than harm is normal among the left. It is the right and particularly the far right nationalists that scream all this bullshit. Here I can even show you elected mp Diane Abbot defending Mao on national TV (surrounding by right wing psychos). Or then Shadow Chancellor of the Treasury John McDonald throwing Mao’s little red book on the table in Parliament giving a speech in front of the labour party.
Mao played a pivotal role in freeing the country from colonialism, establishing new china, redistributing wealth and land and improving the lives of the people. Anyone that believes those lives were going to improve without revolution is crazy. Was he perfect? Fuck no he definitely made mistakes like killing the Sparrows which they quickly backtracked on. But was he good? Fuck yes. 70% good, 30% mistakes.
Yes pull up your CIA statistics so I can wipe my ass with it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Mothers wipe your ass with the mothers of the dead kids you degenerate wanker
mass starvation records under mao
You mean the last Chinese famine, after a thousand years of recurring famines which happened under every Chinese regime, and were solved once and for all by the end of the Great Leap Forward? Yes let’s talk about those.
youre making it soumd like tens of millions starving to death is a win
Quick questions, what was the life expectancy when Mao came to power? And what was it when he left?
global rising tides lift all boats. plus if all of your weak and eldery stave to death and youre left with only the fitter people then yeah youll have highrr life expectancies. pretty fucjed up way to do it though
You’re literally trying to argue that people dying younger raises life expectancy, just give up man.
Your comment is legitimately incoherent.
Gonna cry about 10k invented dead people? ok, it’s good to let emotions out sometimes
Akshually sweaty, according to the intense and very legitimate research of the victims of communism foundation every one of those 10,000 theoretical victims would have had 10,000 good anti-communist childre, who would have had 10,000 children, so really the ICUP killed THIRTY INFINITY PEOPLE, including all of the neanderthals and DB Cooper!
What do you have to say to that, tankie!?!?!
thats not satirising a single talking point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Mothers
how tf does anyome invent 10K dead people??? they had fucjing families yiu moron yiu can go ask them yiurself you degenerate shithead. stop sucking off some dictators cock
you removed shithead. stop sucking off some dictators cock
Liberals really come in screaming slurs and being homophobic in a predominantly queer instance and expect to be taken seriously
stop sucking off some dictators cock
Liberals and suddenly becoming homophobic when confronted with different views on geopolitics name a more iconic duo.
Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds, as they say.
i have no idea if youre a man or woman, sucking someones cock is a known idiom for bejng a sycophant. fuck off with your bad faith argument. i never even claimed to be a liberal? stop larping
A homophobic/misogynistic idiom yes.
Yeah, you can. Except… 10k people, there’s actually only a couple of primary sources for that number who claim to be there. I realise that every lib expat from China will claim that they had a family member in the protests who died, but very few are willing to go on the record even with Western protection.
The thing is, the vast vast vast majority of people who believe “10k dead” haven’t engaged with primary sources (people that actually saw what was going on at Tiananmen Square). The western journalists who were present don’t believe the 10k number, even though they aren’t CPC shills.
Why am I even responding to this? I literally have been in those spaces and asked, all without sucking Xi’s dick, let alone Deng’s or whatever.
Some dipshits just made it up out of thing air way back when the whole thing went down. Like just completely made it up, along with the bullshit about tanks running over people in the square and all kinds of other BS.
Also,
i looked it up, most estimates hit the 2700-3000 range but cant be sure due to chinese censorship. theres an advocacy group by victims families to identify all the dead but it’s been halted by the ccp for obvious reasons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Mothers
Do you know the 10k dead figure comes from a British diplomat who said “a friend told me” as his source and he later admitted he just made it up.
lmao you wanna try that again without any slurs? you forgot to put your mask on before coming into the discussion, dronie
what mask? i dont care if your feelings are in a twist youre literally denying the deaths of thousans of teenage protestors under a regime. talk to the families of the victims holy shit you asshole
What mask indeed.
So when did you talk to these thousands of families?
wah wah go starve commie
I am going to be so exited to report you to the secret police for extra rations when China takes over America and enforces Juche law
cry me a river
your ideologues sure fucking did when no one got massacred at the tiananmen square
Why would you get angry at the fact that there’s less massacres?
thats a perverted bastardisation of my argument and you know it, im angry cause youre lying about a massacre that did happen not happening
There was a protest, there was no massacre. Sorry the facts hurt your feelings
