Antivax types are all anti pushing vaccine on to people but if they don’t want to get vaccinated then it still won’t affect vaccinated folks. From my rough understanding, getting vaccinated keeps you alive or get less severe symptoms, but you can still pass it on.
So if antivax people don’t get it, then why not just let them die?
Edit: guys, I’m not antivax, I just don’t understand how herd immunity works.
Because some people have certain conditions preventing them to vaccines. For example, babies are too young for many vaccines. We still want herd immunity to protect those people. Vaccine effectiveness isn’t 100%, so vaccinated people can still get affected by those irresponsible anti-vaxxers.
Antivax people don’t just die, they overload hospitals. The more virus is spread, the more variants are created.
For the first example, it seems that reasonable exemptions should exist, were vaccines ever mandated. If you’re immunocompromised or too young, etc., seems sensible to exempt those people.
The problem is that most anti-vaxxers are not those categories. Their religion, their politics, or their ignorance are seen as acceptable reasons to skip vaccination, and none of those are based on an objective state of a person or have a rational basis for rejecting vaccines. Even if we throw in the prospect of someone having an unknown vaccine allergy, that only affects about one in a million people. You have a better chance to be struck by lightning.
And so, nobody should be subjected to Typhoid Mary just because their favorite god, celebrity, or politician promotes anti-vaxx conspiracy theories. Vaccines should absolutely be mandatory (and fully subsidized by the governing bodies). They save lives, and there’s 230 years of documented history to prove it.
My point is that anti-vaxxers should be mandated for vaccines because there are some people who cannot be vaccinated for legit reasons.
Ah, yes. I gotcha. (Also, most of what I wrote was just for general discussion, not aimed specifically at you.)
While vaccins are usually spread out over the first ten years of life, babies can and do get vaccinated. I don’t know what you’re talking about.
I’d say that it’d be fair to give vaccinated people priority of care above unvaccinated people.
Don’t want to get vaccinated? Deal with the consequences.
Babies do get vaccinated starting at 2mo but their immune systems aren’t super great until 6mo+.
A less than 6mo baby with a fever above 100.5 is likely going to the hospital.
Medical systems shouldn’t have inbuilt favoritism, it leads to dehumanization and eugenics. Its already a problem for addicts v not, poor v rich, black v white, etc. We shouldn’t add in another way to discriminate just because they’re ignorant/stupid.
I dunno, not vaccinating is antisocial. I think vaccines must be provided for free and distributed widely.
And if some don’t want to get vaccinated, then tough luck. We are not going to let kids die because of someone spreading nonsense conspiracies.
In fact, not vaccinating everyone is favouritism, as it creates a bigger rift between rich and poor, informed and uninformed people.
If someone A were on a hospital bed and had dutifully vaccinated, but another person B who’s screaming and refuses vaccins (and consequently is more ill), then I think A deserves the care first. Person B chose a lie and harming people, over helping others. He can get fucked.
Ideally, I’d like for it to be voluntary too, but my solidarity ends at people not doing their part, be they oligarchs or antivaxxers.
I’m for mandatory vaccination to be clear but I’m not for using ignorance or stupidity as discrimination.
What do you do when person A or B is a kid who has or hasn’t been vaccinated because of their parents? Do you still discriminate their care? If person B is on a ventilator do you take them off to put A on?
What do you do when they are afraid of government because of systemic discrimination experiences or even having a relative who was in the Tuskegee syphilis experiment? Or just a needle phobia?
I would also just clarify that this antivax discrimination does exist to an extent, not vaccinating keeps you lower or off of most transplant lists and that makes sense because you want to keep the organ healthy. But it isn’t going to change your ability to get regular care.
In that case I would vaccinate the kid and not discriminate their care. They’re the victim of antivax parents, and not to be affected by them. See more here.
If they’re afraid of the government, then I’d support independent, local, decentralised vaccination campaigns. As long as it’s transparent.
And for needle phobias, well, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ there’s not really other ways. If there’s another I’d be happy to support that, though.
You can’t or at least shouldn’t vaccinate while ill. So the ethics question from before is still there.
Vaccines are governmentally approved and distributed. You’re not getting around that by local campaigns (which already exist).
The point of the needle phobia is just to show that there are some legitimate possibilities for why someone may not be vaccinated rather than just pure ignorance/stupidity.
Newborns usually aren’t vaccinated until at least a few months - even then, things get introduced over time.
An additional example, some folks can’t get vaccinated due to being immunocompromised, resulting in most vaccine mechanisms not working.