Watch this video ad-free on Nebula: https://nebula.tv/videos/notjustbikes-why-cars-rarely-crash-into-buildings-in-the-netherlandsI've lived in the Netherland...
The primary reason is most people can’t drive. I don’t mean they can’t mechanically operate a vehicle and make it move, I mean they lack the skill required to do so competently and safely.
Are you sure it’s not that the road design is much safer in the Netherlands, like the video said?
You seem to do exactly what the video is criticising: finding someone at fault and moving on, instead of changing the street design so that a lack of skill does not result in catastophic crashes.
Haha, this is exactly what the video is about! You are victim blaming. Road infrastructure should accommodate and encourage the type of driving you want… and wide straight roads encourage faster driving leading to more and more serious accidents.
People are fallable, so design streets that are narrower and add complexity, separate traffic types and see the difference.
License requirements can’t be strict unless the infrastructure makes accommodations for people who fail. The US is so car-centric that driving has to effectively be an entitlement, even though it’s supposed to be a privilege, in order for people not to be stranded at home.
Again… the issue is predominantly a systemic issue that hides itself from responsibility by pushing the responsibility to the individual without looking at the systemic causes.
Noone is saying the individual does not bear some responsibility, but making appropriate changes to the roads will help general safety more.
The US roads are so wide that they can easily be narrowed and a protected (separated with grass and trees) bikelane and sidewalk installed. Add some curves and watch this issue dissapear without doing anything on the PeRsOnAl ReSpOnSiBiLiTy!! Side of things. Plus it makes cities bikeable and more livable.
I know what the video says but that doesn’t mean it’s right just because it’s a video someone made. It could be completely wrong, it could be right about one thing or about many things.
Roads should be designed with safety as a consideration but that doesn’t excuse incompetent driving. You’re in control of a weapon that can do serious damage, it shouldn’t be a hot take to think that skill and consideration should be applied at all times when someone sits behind a wheel.
You claimed that lack of skill is the primary reason. How about you back that thing up before claiming that the video is wrong?
We can argue that some more regulation is needed, sure, but that is missing the point. It’s not like the Netherlands only has good drivers, it’s that a bad driver can rarely deal heavy damage because the infrastructure was well designed. You cannot remove all bad drivers from the road, the best driver in the world makes bad decisions if they’re stressed and late.
You can blame the driver for making a bad decision and see the casualties as unfortunate. Or you can see the fault in the infrastructure, which made what could have been a fender-bender into a head-on collision, and see the casualties as preventable. Those views are not exclusive, but only the latter will actually prevent accidents.
In the field of safety there is a concept called a “normal accident”, or a system accident. Basically it says that in any complex system catastrophic accidents will always happen, because they are impossible to foresee (due to complexity) and thus prevent. That theory says you need to prepare for the consequence of the accident just as much as try to prevent it.
So, people are always going to lose control, you need to prepare for when it happens.
The primary reason is most people can’t drive. I don’t mean they can’t mechanically operate a vehicle and make it move, I mean they lack the skill required to do so competently and safely.
Are you sure it’s not that the road design is much safer in the Netherlands, like the video said?
You seem to do exactly what the video is criticising: finding someone at fault and moving on, instead of changing the street design so that a lack of skill does not result in catastophic crashes.
Haha, this is exactly what the video is about! You are victim blaming. Road infrastructure should accommodate and encourage the type of driving you want… and wide straight roads encourage faster driving leading to more and more serious accidents.
People are fallable, so design streets that are narrower and add complexity, separate traffic types and see the difference.
Of course but the requirements for getting a licence should also be strict.
License requirements can’t be strict unless the infrastructure makes accommodations for people who fail. The US is so car-centric that driving has to effectively be an entitlement, even though it’s supposed to be a privilege, in order for people not to be stranded at home.
Again… the issue is predominantly a systemic issue that hides itself from responsibility by pushing the responsibility to the individual without looking at the systemic causes.
Noone is saying the individual does not bear some responsibility, but making appropriate changes to the roads will help general safety more.
The US roads are so wide that they can easily be narrowed and a protected (separated with grass and trees) bikelane and sidewalk installed. Add some curves and watch this issue dissapear without doing anything on the PeRsOnAl ReSpOnSiBiLiTy!! Side of things. Plus it makes cities bikeable and more livable.
Sure but from what I have heard the USA has terribly low requirements for a license.
Both things should be done and the later is much cheaper and easier because you don’t have to rebuild every single road.
I know what the video says but that doesn’t mean it’s right just because it’s a video someone made. It could be completely wrong, it could be right about one thing or about many things.
Roads should be designed with safety as a consideration but that doesn’t excuse incompetent driving. You’re in control of a weapon that can do serious damage, it shouldn’t be a hot take to think that skill and consideration should be applied at all times when someone sits behind a wheel.
You claimed that lack of skill is the primary reason. How about you back that thing up before claiming that the video is wrong?
We can argue that some more regulation is needed, sure, but that is missing the point. It’s not like the Netherlands only has good drivers, it’s that a bad driver can rarely deal heavy damage because the infrastructure was well designed. You cannot remove all bad drivers from the road, the best driver in the world makes bad decisions if they’re stressed and late.
You can blame the driver for making a bad decision and see the casualties as unfortunate. Or you can see the fault in the infrastructure, which made what could have been a fender-bender into a head-on collision, and see the casualties as preventable. Those views are not exclusive, but only the latter will actually prevent accidents.
Removed by mod
In the field of safety there is a concept called a “normal accident”, or a system accident. Basically it says that in any complex system catastrophic accidents will always happen, because they are impossible to foresee (due to complexity) and thus prevent. That theory says you need to prepare for the consequence of the accident just as much as try to prevent it.
So, people are always going to lose control, you need to prepare for when it happens.
I’d say 90% are more or less competent. 10% are idiots and 1% are dangerous morons. A lot of the problem could actually be solved by regular retests.