I’m still waiting for them to provide proof of actual leftists who outright support Russia invading Ukraine. To them, bringing up facts about NATO/US aggression in the region for ~30 years post-USSR (not to mention the entirety of the USSR’s existence) is “supporting Putin.”
The fact is there is a war there. Putin did invade. That happened. So, given reality and not hypotheticals, the choices are between do not aid Ukraine, a reactionary country known since its creation and long before for having very far right, reactionary views, aligning with actual Nazis, erecting statues to said Nazis, everyone knows all the shit at this point. Or aid Ukraine and decide how to aid them. Well, if you’re gonna send aid to a nation that would mean you want them to “win.” Unless you’re only “aiding” them in a cynical way for ulterior motives… which is obviously exactly what the US is doing. It’s just a dumping ground for weapons contractors to make billions in profits at the expense of Russian and Ukrainian lives. Senators have explicitly stated this on record. It’s not even a debatable topic.
So if the choices are, under Biden or whoever, funding an endless slaughter of people because they view it as weakening Russia, or immediately meeting Putin’s terms doing a ceasefire agreement and eventual full peace process including redrawing country lines- THEN YOU DO THE LATTER, OF COURSE!
The entire war fervor is fed by an underlying lie or assumption that “Putin wants to keep marching West! He wants all of Europe all the way to France and Spain!” Putler, basically. The media uncritically states and repeats this constantly with zero actual proof.
I’m not a fan of Putin. He’s a reactionary himself. He proudly proclaims himself to be a capitalist. He openly wanted to join NATO and they snubbed him. He’s repeatedly warned the west to stop expanding NATO, yet it kept expanding including doing a carrot dangling in front of Ukraine. I’m not happy there’s a fucking war. I don’t believe this war will bring any sort of better living standards to probably anyone in that region. But, funding a multi-year war now, still unresolved somehow, killing fuck knows how many people, is certainly, absolutely making a shitty situation (that the US created!) even worse. The solutions are simple: Immediately leave Ukraine, stop sending weapons, stop fucking with Russia and anyone else in the region (or world for that matter…).
I’m not a fan of Putin, but I do support the Russian intervention (better term than invasion, since the war actually began in 2014, with the junta government as the aggressor). That doesn’t mean I like the current Russian state, or consider it communist, etc.
Donbas is Gaza if Gaza had a powerful neighbor, who (for various flawed reasons) was willing and able to intervene and stop the genocide. Of course, libsocs like Lowkey_Iconoclast can’t possibly see things in that kind of nuance.
I mostly analyze things like this in terms that (I think) Lenin first laid out. Basically like does this war benefit the proletariat? Who benefits here? The answer is 1) US arms contractors (bourgeoisie) 2) Russia, if successful which it seems they will be, will gain land and territory (or at least there will be independent regions it exerts full influence over). Access to resources, people living there, etc.
And who loses: Well, it seems Ukraine has lost a massive portion of its young men so far. Not to mention this war will indebt them to the US and others for decades to come with costs that no nation could take on and hope to pay off. Paying off aid to your nation from the nation that set you on the path to war and then told you to keep fighting the war… great situation there for future Ukrainians.
You could argue Russia is losing military members and expending resources on the war, but it’s not nearly as had as the western media would have us believe.
And while the owners in the US “win” in terms of making profits from war, they’re losing the greater fight to continue imperial dominance. And the workers in the US lose out because resources that should be expended on literally anything else are instead spent on bombs which only bring death and destruction to the world. With no material gain to the people who created them. They could be using the metal and whatever other components of bombs to build new bridges, new roads, houses, anything. Instead that potential house goes into exploding a Russian tank. Who the fuck benefits from that besides the guy who owns the factory shitting out bombs.
Very basic analysis there removing any morality from the picture (since liberals hate when you operate on moral grounds… no no we can’t have morals!) and it’s clear that no American, save for capitalists invested in the MIC, should be supporting continued involvement in Ukraine or any other currently ongoing conflict.
I’m still waiting for them to provide proof of actual leftists who outright support Russia invading Ukraine. To them, bringing up facts about NATO/US aggression in the region for ~30 years post-USSR (not to mention the entirety of the USSR’s existence) is “supporting Putin.”
The fact is there is a war there. Putin did invade. That happened. So, given reality and not hypotheticals, the choices are between do not aid Ukraine, a reactionary country known since its creation and long before for having very far right, reactionary views, aligning with actual Nazis, erecting statues to said Nazis, everyone knows all the shit at this point. Or aid Ukraine and decide how to aid them. Well, if you’re gonna send aid to a nation that would mean you want them to “win.” Unless you’re only “aiding” them in a cynical way for ulterior motives… which is obviously exactly what the US is doing. It’s just a dumping ground for weapons contractors to make billions in profits at the expense of Russian and Ukrainian lives. Senators have explicitly stated this on record. It’s not even a debatable topic.
So if the choices are, under Biden or whoever, funding an endless slaughter of people because they view it as weakening Russia, or immediately meeting Putin’s terms doing a ceasefire agreement and eventual full peace process including redrawing country lines- THEN YOU DO THE LATTER, OF COURSE!
The entire war fervor is fed by an underlying lie or assumption that “Putin wants to keep marching West! He wants all of Europe all the way to France and Spain!” Putler, basically. The media uncritically states and repeats this constantly with zero actual proof.
I’m not a fan of Putin. He’s a reactionary himself. He proudly proclaims himself to be a capitalist. He openly wanted to join NATO and they snubbed him. He’s repeatedly warned the west to stop expanding NATO, yet it kept expanding including doing a carrot dangling in front of Ukraine. I’m not happy there’s a fucking war. I don’t believe this war will bring any sort of better living standards to probably anyone in that region. But, funding a multi-year war now, still unresolved somehow, killing fuck knows how many people, is certainly, absolutely making a shitty situation (that the US created!) even worse. The solutions are simple: Immediately leave Ukraine, stop sending weapons, stop fucking with Russia and anyone else in the region (or world for that matter…).
I’m not a fan of Putin, but I do support the Russian intervention (better term than invasion, since the war actually began in 2014, with the junta government as the aggressor). That doesn’t mean I like the current Russian state, or consider it communist, etc.
Donbas is Gaza if Gaza had a powerful neighbor, who (for various flawed reasons) was willing and able to intervene and stop the genocide. Of course, libsocs like Lowkey_Iconoclast can’t possibly see things in that kind of nuance.
I mostly analyze things like this in terms that (I think) Lenin first laid out. Basically like does this war benefit the proletariat? Who benefits here? The answer is 1) US arms contractors (bourgeoisie) 2) Russia, if successful which it seems they will be, will gain land and territory (or at least there will be independent regions it exerts full influence over). Access to resources, people living there, etc.
And who loses: Well, it seems Ukraine has lost a massive portion of its young men so far. Not to mention this war will indebt them to the US and others for decades to come with costs that no nation could take on and hope to pay off. Paying off aid to your nation from the nation that set you on the path to war and then told you to keep fighting the war… great situation there for future Ukrainians.
You could argue Russia is losing military members and expending resources on the war, but it’s not nearly as had as the western media would have us believe.
And while the owners in the US “win” in terms of making profits from war, they’re losing the greater fight to continue imperial dominance. And the workers in the US lose out because resources that should be expended on literally anything else are instead spent on bombs which only bring death and destruction to the world. With no material gain to the people who created them. They could be using the metal and whatever other components of bombs to build new bridges, new roads, houses, anything. Instead that potential house goes into exploding a Russian tank. Who the fuck benefits from that besides the guy who owns the factory shitting out bombs.
Very basic analysis there removing any morality from the picture (since liberals hate when you operate on moral grounds… no no we can’t have morals!) and it’s clear that no American, save for capitalists invested in the MIC, should be supporting continued involvement in Ukraine or any other currently ongoing conflict.